What is this section about (n00bs read this!)

[Verbal Mike]

Tha above post has been nominated for the 2008 award for "Best First Post, Ever."

Damn newbs, stealing my thunders.
*rofls at himself quietly, and yet maniacally*

[TheLastLump]

^.^ Thanks. I got to like the sixth page of this discussion, and everyone was talking about editing it. All of a sudden, I mentally screamed "WAIT!!". It was the version of BIP that I'd read that inspired me to create my own Cabal, and I'd hate to see it go. There's no need to streamline it. It's as potent and useful as it's going to get.

[Cramulus]

^.^ Thanks. I got to like the sixth page of this discussion, and everyone was talking about editing it. All of a sudden, I mentally screamed "WAIT!!". It was the version of BIP that I'd read that inspired me to create my own Cabal, and I'd hate to see it go. There's no need to streamline it. It's as potent and useful as it's going to get.

see here's where we differ

I think the BIP is great. I'm the one who edited the v2 pamphlet, so I personally think it's in a great state right now. The v2 edit addressed a lot of the concerns people had come to the forum and reported, so I also think we're pretty much done rehashing it (for now).  But is it as useful as it's going to get? survey says no. Nothing is sacred enough that we shouldn't consider how to improve it.

Out of curiosity, how did you find the BIP pamphlet? And what's this about starting a cabal inspired by it?

[TheLastLump]

Well, I saw the BIP when I got onto the PD website to root around for a page I needed, when I saw there was a new link: The Black Iron Prison. I read it, and I loved it. Aside from a few grammatical errors, there's really nothing "wrong" with it. But yeah, I suppose there could be a bit of refinishing, as well as a bit of extra content.

On MySpace, I started a cabal titled the Silent Cabal- basically, it's a way to co-ordinate fun things like flash mobs and projects from Operation: Mindfuck in a safe and difficult-to-spy-on way. It's hidden, but just message me (I'm The Lump on there) and I'll invite you so you can make sure I'm not being overzealous. I don't want to create some organization or anything; it's just that I believe there will come a time when people with free thought may have to go underground, and the Silent Cabal is a way to let everyone know that we're still alive.

As of right now, there's only one member other than myself, and I'm not really going to be "recruiting" or anything radical like that, but anyone that thinks it's a good idea can join just so contacting them is easier.

[Jasper]

Check out our GASMs.  We should incorporate.

[Triple Zero]

Tha above post has been nominated for the 2008 award for "Best First Post, Ever."

flattery will get you everything

[/cynical]

[Politician168023]

the map is not the territory

"Today abstraction is no longer that of the map, the double, the mirror, or the concept. Simulation is no longer that of a territory, a referential being or substance. It is the generation by models of a real without origin or reality: A hyperreal. The territory no longer precedes the map, nor does it survive it. It is nevertheless the map that precedes the territory - precession of simulacra - that engenders the territory. "(Baudrillard, 'Simulacres et Simulation', 1994, p. 1)

Referring to electronic media.

[Politician168023]

Oh dear, noone is going to like this =(

I don't like the BIP. I think it is forceful, aimed at dipshits and does not include an ounce of subtlety.

I guess its aimed at those who havnt thought at all, unlike the original Principia which is aimed at fairly switched on people.

If you treat people like they are stupid, they will be stupid.

Isn't that how the prison operates anyway?


Maybe it's a good read for those who don't think very much, Ill have to find some of "those people" and show it to them - I'll let you know the results of the experiment.

[Triple Zero]

i think it's good for anyone who happens to be in the right mental position to latch on to it.

i can understand your concerns, but i can also imagine certain people that immediately resonate with this and get them very interested in the subject matter.

that's why the BIP pamphlet is not supposed to be the only pamphlet.

[AFK]

Oh dear, noone is going to like this =(

I don't like the BIP. I think it is forceful, aimed at dipshits and does not include an ounce of subtlety.

I guess its aimed at those who havnt thought at all, unlike the original Principia which is aimed at fairly switched on people.

If you treat people like they are stupid, they will be stupid.

Isn't that how the prison operates anyway?


Maybe it's a good read for those who don't think very much, Ill have to find some of "those people" and show it to them - I'll let you know the results of the experiment.

You're not the first and you won't be the last.  It's not for everybody.  Nothing is.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't force them to drink it, but you can slap them around a little bit to make them come to their senses.  

Moreover I don't think it's coming off like the reader is stupid.  Just because someone is smart, intelligent, whatever doesn't mean they aren't close minded.  The BIP is kind of like a crowbar that is just trying to let some daylight in.  The reader is responsible for opening the door the rest of the way, or not, or if they so desire, board it up with planks and nails.  

[Politician168023]

Yes, I see your point about those clever, but closed minded people RWHN. I do however think that much of the stuff in the BIP is "common knowledge" and a clever but closed minded person may need a longer crowbar.

What I mean by this is that clever people are turned on by clever things... if you can con a clever person into believing something, and then reveal they have been conned, preferably by mocking them in some subtle way; they might think "shit, ive just been conned" and do something about it


Edit: added some missing punctuation 

[Politician168023]

that's why the BIP pamphlet is not supposed to be the only pamphlet.

Would be great to make a few more pamphlets... Of course this would mean making  up some modern stereotypes and then working on their values, and deviously working out what we can say to manipulate their fragile minds =)

w00t, sounds like a great job 

[LMNO]

Pol, what parts do you see as common knowledge?

[AFK]

Yes, I see your point about those clever, but closed minded people RWHN. I do however think that much of the stuff in the BIP is "common knowledge" and a clever but closed minded person may need a longer crowbar.

What I mean by this is that clever people are turned on by clever things... if you can con a clever person into believing something, and then reveal they have been conned, preferably by mocking them in some subtle way; they might think "shit, ive just been conned" and do something about it


Edit: added some missing punctuation 

How is the BIP not clever?  I think ECH's writing about widgets is very clever.  I think the opening piece about the Prison is very clever.  I think the piece about Toxicity is very clever.  TGRR's writings are clever, etc., etc.,  One can swing a sledgehammer and still be clever.  Clever doesn't need to be esoteric humor and abstract bullshit. 

To be honest, I think the most effective pieces in the PD were the ones that were most straight-forward.  Nonsense as Salvation, for example, was one of the most straightforward pieces in the whole book, and I think, the most effective at getting its message across.  But I wouldn't say it wasn't clever. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think one can be clever and not esoteric, or clever and esoteric, or straightforward and clever or just straightforward.

Much of the BiP feels more straightforward than clever.

That is, in my opinion (and I've only passed it out to a few cabbages) it doesn't have a wit that makes it snazzy. It feels a lot more (to me) like a pulpit. Not that a pulpit isn't effective (obviously it is) but I'm not sure 'clever' in the general use of the term really describes the BiP.