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What is this section about (n00bs read this!)

Started by Cain, January 25, 2007, 09:39:52 PM

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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Thelaughingman421 on February 19, 2008, 02:04:18 PM
Multiple texts might cause people to misconstrue the true meaning behind the whole thing, though. However, multiple texts might also cause Them to think theres more than just us think-for-yourselfers out there. Having everyone contribute matierial(sp?) on some given day would be a good idea to create reams of new propaganda. I'm far too blunt to be insightful and philosophical, though. Or maybe i'm just being self-deprecating again?

Multiple texts may also be seen as multiple maps of the territory. Every map might have useful information on it and there might be information about the territory that is unique to each map. Besides, what is this "true meaning" of which you speak? ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

AFK

Well, part of the idea with the pamphlets, flyers, etc., is to get them to come here.  Many have the pd.com and poee urls on them.  Then, if they are really miscontruing things, we can set them straight.  Besides, in the end, the more people questioning the better.  We don't pretend to know the answers, we just know what questions to ask. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Triple Zero

Quote from: Thelaughingman421 on February 19, 2008, 02:04:18 PMMultiple texts might cause people to misconstrue the true meaning behind the whole thing, though.

please tell us what this true meaning is you speak of. we shall try to make sure our future writings focus on this exclusively.
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Cain

Multiple texts take into account black swans, however.  Especially if the focus is slightly different,we have a greater chance of getting whatever message we want across.

In bandwidth terms, society is growing at an extraordinary rate.  But human attention spans are the same as they always are.  Taking up more of the media bandwidth increases a chance of the messages we convey being seen.

LMNO

1) The cover of BIP says, "Discordia Revisited", not "The Principia Discordia part 2: Electric Boogaloo".  As far as I understand it, we wen't trying to rewrite the PD, we were going a bit further in-depth about the Reality Filter concepts, and tuning into the dark, gallows-humor style that PD.com seems to enjoy.  I think there are some parts of the BIP that are pretty funny.

2) Page 14:

Quote from: BIP Pamphlet"Okay, big guy," you say, "So what's really out there, if you're so smart?" I have to tell you... I don't know. I have the same blinders that you do. I live in the same kind of box.


But I will say one thing. My saying "I don't know" doesn't mean, "I don't know, and I don't care, because there's no way to escape the biology of my sense." I say, "I don't know, but I want to find out. I want to try and see and feel as much as I can, I don't want to take somebody's word for it, I want to keep exploring, and figuring shit out. I want to walk out of my Prison Cell, even if I just end up in another one. I'm not content only seeing a fraction of what's out there.


Because hey, who knows what kind of fun I'm missing?



Please explain how this could sound pessimistic and depressing.

Cainad (dec.)

Multiple texts.

Multiple interpretations.

DISCORD.









Get it?

LMNO


hooplala

I think it would be better if every single Discordian text had several versions floating about.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: Hoopla on February 19, 2008, 06:37:20 PM
I think it would be better if every single Discordian text had several versions floating about.

I agree, and I think we already have that to some extent (but we want/need MOAR)

I think I have stated once before why I think the multi-directional approach is good, even necessary. If we really want people's attention, we need to set up a kind of memetic crossfire. This is why KYFMS is important: it's not because of some bullshit "ofuk lookout the Greyface patrol is gonna get you," it's because if you are pegged by everyone you know as the source of the weirdness, it ruins the psychological effect of seeing Discordian stuff coming at you from all directions.


Thought: I think the story of Greyface needs to be spread among the public, perhaps as part of an already-existing GASM. We use the term all the time because we have a fairly common understanding of its meaning, and it's used in a lot of Discordian literature, but many of the people we are trying to reach might miss the point entirely because they don't know wtf a "Greyface" is, or why the hell there are so many pamphlets lying around denouncing cabbages.

hooplala

Don't forget:  All Greyfaces are Cabbages, but all Cabbages are not necessarily Greyfaces.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Cainad (dec.)

'Xactly. But the hoi polloi are under the misguided notion that cabbages are something you eat with corned beef.

hooplala

"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Thelaughingman421

Quote from: Cainad on February 19, 2008, 08:17:27 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on February 19, 2008, 06:37:20 PM
I think it would be better if every single Discordian text had several versions floating about.

I agree, and I think we already have that to some extent (but we want/need MOAR)

I think I have stated once before why I think the multi-directional approach is good, even necessary. If we really want people's attention, we need to set up a kind of memetic crossfire. This is why KYFMS is important: it's not because of some bullshit "ofuk lookout the Greyface patrol is gonna get you," it's because if you are pegged by everyone you know as the source of the weirdness, it ruins the psychological effect of seeing Discordian stuff coming at you from all directions.


Thought: I think the story of Greyface needs to be spread among the public, perhaps as part of an already-existing GASM. We use the term all the time because we have a fairly common understanding of its meaning, and it's used in a lot of Discordian literature, but many of the people we are trying to reach might miss the point entirely because they don't know wtf a "Greyface" is, or why the hell there are so many pamphlets lying around denouncing cabbages.

Well, if people actually bothered to read things, they'd understand. At least, maybe they'd look it up on Wikipedia or something. Releasing the tale of Greyface into public attention would at least show people that taking things so seriously is such a problem.

Also, what if we just dropped the cabbage metaphor? Or would that make things even more difficult then they already are?
Use in open areas as fumes may be harmful....

Janvier

Quote from: Ratatosk on February 18, 2008, 04:49:05 PM
I think that there are some really useful aspects to the BiP and I've come around to seeing it as a different model (similar in some respects to the 8-Circuit grid) to use when discussing these concepts. That being said, I still think the overall feel is one of pessimism rather than optimism (as the PD was). Sorta like Discordianism, through the glass darkly.

I haven't yet figured out why I think this (particularly since its authors continue to insist its not pessimistic). I've considered the following so far:

1. The BiP metaphor makes a judgment about the individuals perceptions. THEY are in Prison. We ALL are in Prison. In contrast, the Reality Tunnel metaphor used by Leary and Wilson doesn't make a judgment about the individuals perception, it simply identifies it as a tunnel, obviously a larger tunnel is preferential to a smaller one, but there's no concept of being entirely trapped or that the trap is bad/wrong/evil (concepts which tend to go along with prison). As LMNO said the other day if you think of being born as being a fresh prisoner, just getting processed... the metaphor can look pretty depressing, pretty quickly.

2. The style feels very much like the style of an Anarchist, or Libertarian, or Socialist pamphlet. That is, it feels like a series of essays directed AT the reader, from a position of Knowledge, held by the author. The PD reads like a series of sense and nonsense, which the reader may or may not get something useful out of... the concluding message may be perceived differently by each person reading it... The BiP on the other hand, feels (to me) like a direct message stated directly... that may be its intent, but it seems to lend to a more pessimistic feel IMO.

3. I may simply be more comfortable with other metaphors. Several of us have discussed BiP vs Reality tunnels/Grids and, for me personally, I think its less clear than those metaphors. Using the old metaphors we can talk specifically about changes in perception/how we see data (ie Reality Tunnels) and we can talk specifically about changes in ourselves/how we process data (ie. circuit re-imprinting). In the BiP, this feels a bit muddled to me. I think this led to my initial lackluster impression of the metaphor as well.

At least these are things that I've identified about my perceptions of the BiP. That being said,. it seems to be resonating with some people, so I doubt it matters much if it necessarily resonates with me ;-)

I think this issue would probably be moot if we were producing more pamphlets... if the BiP was one among many different pamphlets with different map/model/perspectives then I don't think it would be analyzed quite as stringently. 

What he said. This is basically the way I feel in a far clearer way than I've been able to convey :P

But anyway, I do feel as if I have taken in a part of the message of the BIP, in that I'm reminded that everything in a sense merits questioning. I'm also very much for the idea of more pamphlets. I know I'm new around here but if you don't mind I'd post something for you to consider something later this week. As for the story of Greyface, I think I'll make some flyer to circulate on my university.

Verbal Mike

You don't have to post something for anyone to consider. Just post it, and when someone is looking for stuff for a pamphlet, why, they might just choose your piece for inclusion, if it fits.
Unless stated otherwise, feel free to copy or reproduce any text I post anywhere and any way you like. I will never throw a hissy-fit over it, promise.