2 questions about Maybe Logic & Occam's Razor

[Triple Zero]

LHX (or anyone), could you give me a very short summary/explanation of what Maybe Logic is about? I tried looking it up a few times, but the only thing that I find about it is the general concept of that it doesn't regard statements as black/white true/false, but also with shades of grey in between.

That shades of grey stuff is so incredibly obvious to me (given a name like Maybe Logic), that this explanation really doesn't bring me any further.

On what domains does it operate? Does it have strict operators? Is it anything like logical/boolean math or more like a philosophical paradigm?

the second thing i wanted to bring up is this: A lot of people speak about Occam's Razor. I always kind of get a negative feeling when i hear this term, because it is often posed as a surefire certain way to the "Most Probable Hypothesis". I just wanted to point out that this is NOT a universal rule, not al all.
The most that can be said about Occam's Razor is that it is often a good rule-of-thumb, and that it has some parallels with (but is NOT the same as) the way humans reason about what is "Most Probable" given a certain number of Hypotheses and no (much) more background information except the "length" of the Hypotheses.

[Cain]

Occam was never the target of a conspiracy.  However, keeping it in the general terms of known information (for example it is more likely evolution than some unknown all powerful entity with strange powers and a strange desire to create misleading data caused our existence), it has its uses.

I believe Maybe Logic works off E-prime, which essentially removes the word "is" (the definite article? I studied Shakespeare, not linguistics) from the language.  That removes declarative statements from the language, allowing people to think in different terms about the relationships between objects and attributes.

[LHX]

Maybe Logic seems to address the flaws of comunication along the lines of e-prime (which seems to fit hand-in-hand with Maybe Logic)

Generally, it suggests that definitive statements have little foundation, and it opens the door to investigating why it is problematic to make claims or statements of 'fact'


My advice would be to stick with your 'incredibly obvious' observation - it may not feel very fulfilling, but at the root, thats the principle of the story (perhaps you can say that it works the way words should work - it is pretty obvious)

Maybe logic could have strict operators, as long as they accomodate for the rogue element that manifests in communication flaws between people. The application to logical/boolean math would be interesting because it seems that, to be effective, any of those logical systems would make an acknowledgement at the beginning and end to Maybe Logic to give the whole thing context

anything else seems to be a incomplete picture (or just that - a snapshot of a process that doesnt exist unless there is motion)


as for Occam's Razor - i never even knew what that was until last summer when it started popping up everywhere

it has less to do with "Most Probable Hypothesis", but more to do with the limits of what 2 people can agree upon

again - communication between people is the critical factor to consider when looking at this

you say it is NOT a universal rule - but the combo of Maybe Logic and Occam's Razor suggests that a 'universal rule' (if it existed - which it may) could not be condensed into words (especially english) and transferred from one person to another

you would be hard-pressed to come up with anything that is more useful than a 'good rule of thumb'

especially considering the fact that we are dealing with a changing landscape and different people under different immediate conditions with focuses on different things and looking from different angles

if i see a UFO today, i can come here and tell yall about it, but it would be wise for me to shut the hell up until i can demonstrate something tangible

does it mean you didnt see it? no
but Occam's Razor lets me know that you have good reason not to believe what i say unless you have something visible or tangible to relate it to

Occam's Razor can give a person enough sense to know what people will agree with or acknowledge after scrutiny, and what they wont



like i said before - seeking the best map of the territory rather than having the illusion that some how the map can become the territory

[LMNO]

I was gonna say something, but it looks like it's been taken care of pretty well.

Maybe logic means that most things fall between "true" and "false" (or any two opposites), but that doesn't imply "moral relativity", merely a more accurate description of a situation.

Occam's razor tries to eliminate as many guesses & assumptions as possible.  In LHX's UFO example, an accurate use of the Razor would be to say, "I saw something in the sky I can't explain right now," rather than "I saw an alien spaceship!"

[AFK]

This thread is immensely helpful to me and am glad to see it.  I've always avoided getting into the discussions of Maybe Logic and Occam's Razor because I never really understood what it was about, and wasn't properly motivated to find out for myself.  To hear it described it makes perfect sense and makes me kick myself for not looking it up before.  Good show guys. 

[Mangrove]

thanks guys. i was familiar with occam's razor, but i was hazy on the 'maybe logic' thing.

[LMNO]

That's what you get when you don't read RAW.

[Mangrove]

That's what you get when you don't read RAW.

apart from a foreward he wrote to a chris hyatt book, i'm almost entirely RAW-less.

[LMNO]

Well, there you go.

I suggest Prometheus Rising, and Quantum Psychology.

[Jenne]

I, too, am going to invest in some RAW.  I started reading something--I think it was that Prometheus Rising...it's been a while (5 years? I wanna say)--but put it down after a while because my mind started to wander.

But now that I've gotten some basics...this sounds good.

And makes a lot of sense.  I mean, do you guys think this Maybe Logic and Occam's Razor are good ways of explaining communication between individuals?  Or just another way to say "yeah, you are you and I'm me"...?

[Mangrove]

Well, there you go.

I suggest Prometheus Rising, and Quantum Psychology.

funny you should mention those. i had the same two books recommended to me on a completely different (now RIP) forum.

will check them out.

[LMNO]

They're the only two "pure" philsosphy books.  The rest is hack fiction, amateur sociology, conspiracy, and memoirs.

[Cain]

They're the only two "pure" philsosphy books.  The rest is hack fiction, amateur sociology, conspiracy, and memoirs.

And thats just Illuminatus!

[LMNO]

ZANG!

[LHX]

i was looking for this thread specifically