BIP needs more threads about bullshit superstitions.

[LMNO]

By that standard, we should all learn Aristotle's version of why rocks fall when you drop them.

I can just wing it, when I fuck with Pagans. Hell, THEY do.

Good point.

I had an experience at a party this weekend, that put me in mind of this pragmatist approach.

If I can find the time, I'll write it up.

[LHX]

last time i tried to figure out how something worked, it took a look at its components

its not as sexy as being a shit-kicking gun slinger
but it pays its dividends

theres room for everybody



theres not many pussies around here anymore

[Jasper]

I saw mystical talk in the BIP forum and sort of steered clear for a while because it was such a contradiction in terms for me.

Reality pollutants.

BIPstool experiments tend to debunk anything but empirical and objective realities. 

I thought that was the point.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

last time i tried to figure out how something worked, it took a look at its components

It doesn't work.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I saw mystical talk in the BIP forum and sort of steered clear for a while because it was such a contradiction in terms for me.

It is.

[Jasper]

To quote a videogame I played recently, "Technology and discipline will always triumph over superstitious slobs", or words to that effect.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

To quote a videogame I played recently, "Technology and discipline will always triumph over superstitious slobs", or words to that effect.

Or, in this case, the laughter of The Good Rev shall triumph over silly-ass pseudo-scientific "explorations" of shit that doesn't work.

[Jasper]

I just like the word slob.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I just like the word slob.

Okay:

Or, in this case, the laughter of The Good Rev shall triumph over silly-ass pseudo-scientific "explorations" of shit that doesn't work.  By slobs.

[Jasper]

Excellent.

[Triple Zero]

if this stuff is irrelevant to the BIP, then why does it keep popping up its head every time we discuss the more metaphysical side of things?

just FYI, metaphysics = philosophy, not magic.

metaphysics in philosophy is all about the "what is" and "what does 'being' mean". i assume it is obvious how this relates to the black iron prison concept?

ok

now metaphysics has been trampled all over by the machine called Science. some stuff has been written down in the books and is taught today, some stuff has been ridiculed and hidden away.
and just before you start "well maybe there was a GOOD REASON why it had been ridiculed" -- hear me.

i'm not really sure how much you know about the scientific world.

just because these people happen to pretend to use the scientific method daily in their researches, doesn't mean that most of them are complete and utter monkeys fed by large corporations and their bloated egos.
most of them aren't about doing scientific research, but about who "cites" their papers how much and how often. definitely not about "why" they're cited. for proof, check http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/ this is the largest online library of scientific publications. it has no content, because that's usually copyrighted (), only a big database about who cites who.

thought the whole Galileo thing was a historical curiosity, brought on by the rule of the Church back then?
think again, this stuff is still happening every day, and new theories aren't crushed by those Creationism idiots (sorry but really that's only a mere american disease), it's the fucking CHURCH OF SCIENCE that cannot handle two paradigms at the same time, has to crush and destroy all but one of them, no matter if it's one that makes most sense or if they have to slander on some professor to do it. can't handle two paradigms.
check out Arp's research for a recent example. (ok given, his theories have been proven wrong in the mean time, but they weren't implausible at all, they just happen to invalidate nearly every other cosmological model that happened to be at that time. no thanks to the scientific method, this man has been ridiculed and cannot get any "observation time" at any observation station in the world anymore, just because they don't like him)

so please, i'm (almost) a scientist, and i ask you, stop talking about science as if it's a plausible way to get to the troof. in theory, maybe. but in practice science = politics = magic just as anything.




now, just to be clear on this: i don't believe the occult stuff either. at all. when i first approached it, i was ambivalent about whether it works or not, but soon learned what it's mostly about. which is psychology. another science. not even an exact science (fact: psychologists are afraid of maths). HEAVILY sponsored by mind-medicine corporations. if you knew how that world works, i cannot imagine why you would trust their ramblings either.

but i DO happen to find this occult stuff incredibly interesting. why? i dunno really. but trust me, it's not because i think i can use it to magiqually affect reality in any sort of way, really.
and i think this goes for most of the people on this board enjoying to discuss these matters. it's enjoyable fun stuff to play with, and is about as scientifically valid as psychology. plus, you may not have noticed this, but we did get some of the core ideas of the BIP from these occult things. useful ideas. useful like metaphysical philosophy and/or psychology.

maybe it's not entirely constructive talking about it, but it's fun, can we have our vices? i'm sure you do as well.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Nothing fucking works anyway. Slamming someone in the face with a barstool might as a short term measure but ultimately only by escalating this to absolute genocide could you ever solve the BIP. Why bother trying anything?

I explore my own psychology on account of it's a piece of piss to do so and it's interesting. Same as it's interesting driving cars really fast. BIP is about influencing the way people think. To do that it helps if you know how a mind works. If I want to know how something works I take it to bits and see.

So I find out two things in there, on account of I broke mine the first couple of times.

1- psychology can be influenced by chemicals
2- psychology can be influenced by ideas

number 1 is too tricky to pull off. Spiking someone with just the right dose of just the right chemical is likely to do as much harm as good in the attempt to get your point across. Of course if you abandon the point-making and just want the shits and giggles then spiking them with a huge hit of acid should be good for a laugh

number 2 is also tricky, there's a lot of work involved, lotta stuff to learn. And you need some kinda of notation to keep it all in order.

I practice both on myself and occasionally will test the second one on others.

Bottom line - there's next to nothing you can do for others, they're pretty much fucked unless they've more or less decided to make steps themself The best you can hope for is to be there to push them over the edge.

The only thing that got my goat was rog's insistence that this wasn't 'the best way to dead with bip' - sounded too much like an evangelist. Like there could be a best way. The best way is whatever the fuck you feel like doing. Make a poster, deface a government building, stab someone in the throat, fuck a horse... use wierd diagrams to fuck with your own mind.

'the best way' = same attitude that believes the constitution could ever be anything more than idealistic hippy bullshit.

[LHX]

everybodys panties get in a bunch when they see the word occult


its like everybody got tricked one time and it left a bad taste in the mouth

[LHX]

if this stuff is irrelevant to the BIP, then why does it keep popping up its head every time we discuss the more metaphysical side of things?

just FYI, metaphysics = philosophy, not magic.

metaphysics in philosophy is all about the "what is" and "what does 'being' mean". i assume it is obvious how this relates to the black iron prison concept?

end of thread

[LMNO]

Because we all know that the best way to deal with the prison is to retreat into utter garbage like "occult studies" and "Thoth Tarot Cards".

Punch yourselves in the balls.  All of you.

Ok, I was thinking about this...  It all seems to predicate around a few things:

1.  There is 'a' best way.

2.  The Prison can be dealt with; which brings up the question that i don't think has been covered yet.  "How do we 'deal' with the Prison, and what does that even mean?"  LHX had the idea of "expanding the size" of the cell, and some of us talked of "escaping from one cell into another".  We seem to have agreed that we can never escape the Prison (i.e. the limitations on our perceptions), but we can do our best to escape a 'restricted' way of seeing things.  These 'restrictions' appear to be dogmaticism and a lack of objectivity, and a lack of critical thinking.

3.  That TGRR believes we are uncritical and completely buy into what we're calling "the occult", which I posit is quite untrue.  If Cain talks about "double binds", or someone says something about "psychological symbol manipulation", they aren't saying the believe it 100%, come hell or high water, they are saying it's something interesting to look into.  To me qblh is built around double binds and symbol manipulation, and Crowley built his career on it.  I'm sure if i wanted to, I could convert all the material that's being objected to into discussions of Jungian archetypes, psychological manipulation of preconceptions, and limbic system cascades.  But you know what?  It's the same damn thing.  How's that for a barstool?

4.  Science is very good for describing how things move through space-time, and what sort of molecules they're made up of.  But that's about it.  If you consider that to be the sum of existence, you might as well become a nihilist now.

5.  Fifth post.  Yeah, I went there.