SBOTD Rant: Bad Faith

[Cain]

One of the basic claims of Discordianism is that we are radically free to choose and act as we wish.  Its spelled out on page 00008 and has remained one of the few things almost all Discordians can agree on.  You are free, not you can be free or freedom is available to you, but right now, at this very second, you are an independent agent who is capable of making choices and taking responsibility for them, because only you caused them.

However, many people try to avoid this freedom, precisely because they dread responsibility.  I don't have to tell you about most of these, the conservatives who put faith in tradition, the Christians who put faith in being part of God's plan and every other person who constructs a worldview that puts them at the mercy of higher powers and the world in general.  Victim mentalities, often where no victimization exists.

In short, we choose social roles and institutions and norms in order to escape our freedom, to give it away and abdicate responsibility.  One of the most insidious of these is Discordianism, precisely because it proclaims freedom so openly and positively.

Many Discordians feel they should or actively do play the role of someone who is a bit ,Äúzany,Äù, slightly unpredictable (though tiresomely predictable within a certain range) and given to bad faux-surrealism and Dada.  I should point out not everyone is like this and there are some people who have always been like that.  This is not directed at those people.  Instead, it is directed at people who play that role because they feel this is how a Discordian should be and/or want to fit into the Discordian community more.

This is simply not true.  You have an idea taken from an incomplete impression of the Principia Discordia, with an all too Cabbage-like need for acceptance from your chosen set of peers.  In short, you laughed at all the wrong parts and took seriously the ones you were meant to find funny.

First off, you're falling into the ,Äúconformity of the radical,Äù fallacy.  That every radical group or gathering etc should have a narrowly defined set of behaviour and interests and those acting outside of it are ,Äúposeurs,Äù or fakes of some description.  Remember that bit in the Principia about people belonging to the Orders of Discordia just as likely carrying a flag of the counter-establishment as the establishment?  Good.

Secondly, your actions and behaviour are suggesting to the rest of the world that you are playing the role of a Discordian, that you are an automaton whose only purpose is to act out the essence of being a Discordian.  This is basically a paradox, you are using your freedom to actively deny it.  ,ÄúI'm a Discordian, I'm supposed to act crazy!,Äù etc.  A very interesting position.

Of course, Discordianism is no stranger to paradoxes.  But normally they are used to illustrate a point in a humorous manner, or draw attention to some inconsistency in a viewpoint.  Also, Discordians do have a commitment of sorts to freedom, as previously stated.  Obviously everyone does, but to be fair its not often as explicitly stated.

The thing is, you can't escape freedom.  By making a choice to act like your idea of a Discordian, you may be denying it, but you are responsible for your choice at the same time.  So what you should really ask yourself is ,Äúis this really the best way to exercise my freedom?  Or should I, as a free person, act as I see fit, instead of how I think others will approve of me?,Äù

I know where I stand on the issue.

[LMNO]

Fucking A, Cain.

If it's ok, this will be yoinked for POEEcast.

[Cain]

Thanks.  And go for it.

[Mangrove]

One of the basic claims of Discordianism is that we are radically free to choose and act as we wish.  Its spelled out on page 00008 and has remained one of the few things almost all Discordians can agree on.  You are free, not you can be free or freedom is available to you, but right now, at this very second, you are an independent agent who is capable of making choices and taking responsibility for them, because only you caused them.

However, many people try to avoid this freedom, precisely because they dread responsibility.  I don't have to tell you about most of these, the conservatives who put faith in tradition, the Christians who put faith in being part of God's plan and every other person who constructs a worldview that puts them at the mercy of higher powers and the world in general.  Victim mentalities, often where no victimization exists.

In short, we choose social roles and institutions and norms in order to escape our freedom, to give it away and abdicate responsibility.  One of the most insidious of these is Discordianism, precisely because it proclaims freedom so openly and positively.

Many Discordians feel they should or actively do play the role of someone who is a bit ,Äúzany,Äù, slightly unpredictable (though tiresomely predictable within a certain range) and given to bad faux-surrealism and Dada.¬† I should point out not everyone is like this and there are some people who have always been like that.¬† This is not directed at those people.¬† Instead, it is directed at people who play that role because they feel this is how a Discordian should be and/or want to fit into the Discordian community more.

This is simply not true.  You have an idea taken from an incomplete impression of the Principia Discordia, with an all too Cabbage-like need for acceptance from your chosen set of peers.  In short, you laughed at all the wrong parts and took seriously the ones you were meant to find funny.

First off, you're falling into the ,Äúconformity of the radical,Äù fallacy.¬† That every radical group or gathering etc should have a narrowly defined set of behaviour and interests and those acting outside of it are ,Äúposeurs,Äù or fakes of some description.¬† Remember that bit in the Principia about people belonging to the Orders of Discordia just as likely carrying a flag of the counter-establishment as the establishment?¬† Good.

Secondly, your actions and behaviour are suggesting to the rest of the world that you are playing the role of a Discordian, that you are an automaton whose only purpose is to act out the essence of being a Discordian.¬† This is basically a paradox, you are using your freedom to actively deny it.¬† ,ÄúI'm a Discordian, I'm supposed to act crazy!,Äù etc.¬† A very interesting position.

Of course, Discordianism is no stranger to paradoxes.  But normally they are used to illustrate a point in a humorous manner, or draw attention to some inconsistency in a viewpoint.  Also, Discordians do have a commitment of sorts to freedom, as previously stated.  Obviously everyone does, but to be fair its not often as explicitly stated.

The thing is, you can't escape freedom.¬† By making a choice to act like your idea of a Discordian, you may be denying it, but you are responsible for your choice at the same time.¬† So what you should really ask yourself is ,Äúis this really the best way to exercise my freedom?¬† Or should I, as a free person, act as I see fit, instead of how I think others will approve of me?,Äù

I know where I stand on the issue.

Great stuff Cain. Especially love the bolded.

[hunter s.durden]

I've been accused of throwing off Christianity because I am supposed afraid to accept responsibility for my action. "You want to act however you want, so you pretend God dosen't exist." Naturaly I explain that are are doing the same thing, but hiding behind God to do what they want.

Christianity is based on rules and shame, so I see where some might think this.

Discordians, however? It does seem like some have taken the gift and shit on it. Not realizing freedom and individuality are key, some look to turn this into another fashion show.

Awesome rant. I've always like it when the gun is pointed at the "enlightened".

[LMNO]

I don't want to pat myself on the back, but the SBOTD is gonna be swote.

[Thurnez Isa]

Discordians, however? It does seem like some have taken the gift and shit on it. Not realizing freedom and individuality are key, some look to turn this into another fashion show.

I love this line

EDIT: stolen

[LHX]

some high potency going on right now

[Cain]

Thanks.  And yeah Hunter, I have to agree, although you do get the occasional Christian, like Kierkgaard, who gets it.  He was one of us in spirit, if not in fact.

But the majority - yeah, I never understood that argument either.

[LHX]

freedom and individuality clashes with a scenario where many individuals forced to interact...

we shall see how the story unfolds...


more at 11

[AFK]

More to hand out ITT

[hunter s.durden]

Kierkegaard: good call.

I think you'll disagree, but I sort of feel that way about C.S. Lewis. My source here is The Screwtape Letters. The gluttony part IMO was awesome. The basic idea there was that gluttony didn't just mean eating alot, but also extended to those who ate only the finest gormet foods.

I wonder if Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Robert Tilton, and the like read that bit of Christian literature?

I felt that Lewis called them out like you are calling out bobbies.

[Cain]

It could be....I admit my knowledge of Lewis is limited, but I have been told the Screwtape Letters are worth a read.  Christian existentialism is an odd little thing, I'm not sure he would have agreed with it, but its certainly an idea that bothers me less than most.

Which gives me an idea for another rant...

[Random Probability]

Cain, you always manage to get to the heart of things I fail to articulate.  This rant reverberates with the echoes of my own disatisfaction with certain elements on certain boards that....  just... don't... get it.

It helps to illuminate those in darkness.

[Cain]

No problem, glad to be of service.  However, you should try and write more (this is a general you, maybe).  Its the only way to get better.  I was a sucky writer to start with, really sucky, but I just kept at it.  Plus I really like to read others views on things, too.

Oh, and there were some hints from Orwell which helped too.