BIP Economic Conference

[LHX]

I got a real boner for making my counter propaganda look the same as the shit I'm trying to subvert. If I was releasing a BIP or Discordia ezine it would look like 'Smash Hits' or Cosmopolitan.

co-sign

im about ready to stop posting and let SC handle it for me

[AFK]

I'll be perfectly honest in that the idea of business and BIP co-mingling makes me feel a little icky.  But, that's just me, and it is probably irrational.  That said, I wouldn't hold it up or rail against it either.  I'd still put in my contributions (literary not monetary) and wish it the best.  It just would seem weird to see our stuff all glossy and pretty.  But, like LHX says, we've got "a wealth of something here."  It would be cool to get some more exposure to it, so I could live with my emo-sell-out angst if it means getting a few more heads into this stuff.  

I think my biggest concern/question would be about editing and control over the message and content.  I would be quite insistent that outside of grammar and punctuation that our messages be left as is.  

[LMNO]

Well, that and profit sharing.

[LHX]

if the message got changed, it wouldnt be us anymore

it would be something different

[Cramulus]

When we sell this cow, we're all gonna be smokin' blunts rolled in $100 bills




$$$ BLING BLING MOTHAFUCKAS $$$

[LHX]

then we can spend all our time posting on the internet

ZOMFGL0LLZ0RZ

[Triple Zero]

I got a real boner for making my counter propaganda look the same as the shit I'm trying to subvert. If I was releasing a BIP or Discordia ezine it would look like 'Smash Hits' or Cosmopolitan.

hell yeah!

so we can promise "instant enlightenment" on the cover, while only having a stoopid article about "thinking for yourself" on the inside  :lol:

though one thing, unless we shamelessly copy rip off all the layout details of cosmo that's gonna be hard to equal. the content may be worthless poo but they have a professional graphic design team, as far as i've seen.

LMNO said:
> Well, that and profit sharing.

you think we're gonna make profit? i think we should at first be happy if we could offer people that worked on this some small compensation for the amount of time they put in it, but actual pay?

one thing you gotta know, i've learned from working as a freelance webdeveloper, i always have the idea i'm ripping off the people i work for. maybe that's some low self-worth view or whatever, but it complicated things in this case.
there seems to be some kind of "switch" you need to make from "friendly talk" to "business talk", in the last case you need to talk business, you are suddenly in a battle, who can seem most reasonable while screwing the other out of as much money as to make it worthwile. this is a very stressfull situation for me always and i try to avoid it as much as possible, but of course you can't avoid it always.
and because of this stressfull fight situation in negotiations of moneys, i often seem to think i got the short end of the deal, and while completing the job, thinking very nasty things about the assignment-giver (what's the word).

the conditions under which i have produced some stuff for these places (mostly some images and some bits of one-off coding) have always been "i do this for fun" and the time i've spent on and for these boards has always been my own free (as in beer) time. this is a fine, no-obligations, friendly way of working, like the revolving door principle.
now, if people want to make a job out of it, spend some hours on it that they expect to be paid for as to make a living, i'm sure the whole deal, the atmosphere changes. well, it would for me, i used to think it wouldn't and it shouldn't, but that was before i started doing freelance work and getting my fingers dirty with my own money and fees, and now i know (besides you couldn't pay me anyways )

and i'm afraid the only way (i can think of) to avoid these problems is to simply plug back all the money (if any) made with such a project into the next edition, making the work itself a volunteer job, and maybe perhaps with a tiny compensation, but that would probably be better spent in sending everybody a few proof-copies.

also i'd just like to point out i'm still a n00b at the job market, just been doing the freelance thing for less than a year, so maybe there are some nuances i missed out on, but most ppl i know seem to agree on the general rule: people you do business with are not your friends, (or only as long as they pay you enough)

[Mangrove]

then we can spend all our time posting on the internet

ZOMFGL0LLZ0RZ

this is the correct investment portfolio 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I got a real boner for making my counter propaganda look the same as the shit I'm trying to subvert. If I was releasing a BIP or Discordia ezine it would look like 'Smash Hits' or Cosmopolitan.

hell yeah!

so we can promise "instant enlightenment" on the cover, while only having a stoopid article about "thinking for yourself" on the inside 

though one thing, unless we shamelessly copy rip off all the layout details of cosmo that's gonna be hard to equal. the content may be worthless poo but they have a professional graphic design team, as far as i've seen.

LMNO said:
> Well, that and profit sharing.

you think we're gonna make profit? i think we should at first be happy if we could offer people that worked on this some small compensation for the amount of time they put in it, but actual pay?

one thing you gotta know, i've learned from working as a freelance webdeveloper, i always have the idea i'm ripping off the people i work for. maybe that's some low self-worth view or whatever, but it complicated things in this case.
there seems to be some kind of "switch" you need to make from "friendly talk" to "business talk", in the last case you need to talk business, you are suddenly in a battle, who can seem most reasonable while screwing the other out of as much money as to make it worthwile. this is a very stressfull situation for me always and i try to avoid it as much as possible, but of course you can't avoid it always.
and because of this stressfull fight situation in negotiations of moneys, i often seem to think i got the short end of the deal, and while completing the job, thinking very nasty things about the assignment-giver (what's the word).

the conditions under which i have produced some stuff for these places (mostly some images and some bits of one-off coding) have always been "i do this for fun" and the time i've spent on and for these boards has always been my own free (as in beer) time. this is a fine, no-obligations, friendly way of working, like the revolving door principle.
now, if people want to make a job out of it, spend some hours on it that they expect to be paid for as to make a living, i'm sure the whole deal, the atmosphere changes. well, it would for me, i used to think it wouldn't and it shouldn't, but that was before i started doing freelance work and getting my fingers dirty with my own money and fees, and now i know (besides you couldn't pay me anyways )

and i'm afraid the only way (i can think of) to avoid these problems is to simply plug back all the money (if any) made with such a project into the next edition, making the work itself a volunteer job, and maybe perhaps with a tiny compensation, but that would probably be better spent in sending everybody a few proof-copies.

also i'd just like to point out i'm still a n00b at the job market, just been doing the freelance thing for less than a year, so maybe there are some nuances i missed out on, but most ppl i know seem to agree on the general rule: people you do business with are not your friends, (or only as long as they pay you enough)

Business is a game dude, just play it and try for the High$core. Your opponents are all doing the same thing. Fucking people over is weird to begin with (I can almost remember it) but it'll grow on ya. Then you're ready to go into a meeting with a bunch of suits and screw them for every penny they have.

[LHX]

plus its something i would want to look at myself

so there doesnt seem to be much lose in the situation


also:
some professional graphic designers lose their edge once they become 'professionals'

[Triple Zero]

Business is a game dude, just play it and try for the High$core. Your opponents are all doing the same thing. Fucking people over is weird to begin with (I can almost remember it) but it'll grow on ya. Then you're ready to go into a meeting with a bunch of suits and screw them for every penny they have.

i know. it just brings up a whole lot of stress for me. real bad stress. i have been overworked the past few weeks, srsly overworked because of this. fortunately i can afford myself a week of rest. but just talking here about this shit already brings the claustrophobic feeling to my chest.

in other words, i probably shouldn't be getting myself in this discussion then, eh

[LHX]

fuck that

i aint screwing anybody for anything


that game is done

EDIT - the game doesnt have to be played that way

not anymore

[Triple Zero]

i don't want to either, so what do you propose

[LHX]

what we are discussing here is a relentless media generating system

people can have yesterdays shit and todays shit because the stuff the gets generated the next day is better anyway


there is nothing to be stolen

nobody to screw over

no president

no head honcho


just a train to jump on and jump off


it doesnt seem like anybody here is dumb enuf to want to accumulate money

just want to go thru it



i have no desire to prevent anybody from eating

[LHX]

besides - how the hell are conventional business practices gonna hold up when Open Source is becoming more and more prominent?

i aint tryin to be a dinosaur