Creativity and Allah - Somebody Barstool this

[Bo]

btw unpredictability, order and "entropy" (not the physical entropy, but the statistical one, how much information does a message carry) are tricky subjects.
on the one hand, white noise carries the theoretical maximum of information and is completely unpredictable, yet it is boring as fuck and not very creative.
and this is where CHAOS ties in, because for something to be "interesting" you need the right balance between order and disorder. just being completely random, or just being ridigly ordered is not enough.

It also depends on how you look at it. From the Fourier (look it up) point  of view white noise is the most ordered state you can have. So perhaps something is interesting if it has disorder in any representation?
but your right that it is not just the amount of information that is important; it is the unpredictability of the information.

[Triple Zero]

this is true. i didn't want to mention the Fourier thing though cause i don't know quite what to make of it.

if you have for example some highly compressed data, say an mp3-file, the data itself looks like white noise, but it contains lots of interesting information if you decode it properly. that the Fourier transform dual of this white noise looks boring as fuck ... is in fact not true  while the magnitude of the Fourier coefficients might be all maxed out, all the information resides in the phase of the coefficients--which still look like white noise BTW.

[LMNO]

I just wanted to remind you of the Eristic/Aneristic Illusions.

The above is a perfect example.  What we are calling order, or disorder, is dependent upon how the individual is viewing it.

The amount of upredictable things in a message seems to be dependent on what the individual is predicting.

[Triple Zero]

indeed!

so how would that tie in with the information/novelty/surprise == creativity notion?

so basically, creativity is in the eye of the beholder

that eye of the beholder is getting so crowded these days i was wondering if we could cram in any more.. and yes.

[LMNO]

This would be a pretty good explaination of cultural trends, and how some genres "resurface" for the young'uns, while the elders think it's shite.

The whole punk/emo thing for example.  Those who knew The Clash and Stiff little fingers thought that Green Day sucked, those who were heavy into the DC Dischord scene gagged at MCR, etc etc.

Creativity seems to be a relatively subjective notion.  if someone was speaking Chinese to me, the syllables coming out of their mouth would be completely unpredictable.  However, if I step back and say, "that sounds like an Asian language," then it's completely predictable to hear a stream of Asian language-type sounds coming from that person.