Killing Tomorrow Today

[LMNO]

I do what I can.  I think I phrased the first conclusion poorly, though.

[LMNO]

"want" to?


What, are you a follower of TEH SECRET now?

Holy fuck that thing has a fkin amazing level of production for one of those. Who the hell's behind it?

Oprah, among others.

[P3nT4gR4m]

LOL - oughta turn a profit then

[LHX]

i was surprised by the production in that movie too


i couldnt sit thru the whole thing
but they sure did a good job a playing up Metaphysics 101

[AFK]

Okay, someone help me.  I need someone to tie the history discussion to my OP.  I'm not saying I think it is unconnected, just that, I seem to have lost the connection. 

[LMNO]

Rev, would you say there is a problem of alienation in society?  Not in the strict economic sense of being removed from what it is that makes you your living, but in a more social sense?  Get up at 7, be at work for nine, have half an hour off for lunch, go home, watch tv, have OK sex then go to bed.  Rinse and repeat, forever.

I don't want to sound like some fucking conservative, but there does seem to be a problem when it comes to the average person and the lack of grand narratives and community in modern life.  Personally, I couldn't give a shit because I get along just fine without these things.  But a lot of people do seem to need them, and without them will buy into any half assed shit that makes them feel part of something.   Xenophobic nationalism.  Extremist movements.  Religious nutwingery.

This is where it started.  At the risk of provoking Cain, I can see what I think he's trying to say:  That while he doesn't see a personal need for them, many people need some sort of grand narrative to find "meaning" in their lives, and will grab at anything remotely resembling it, including self-destructive things.

Cain, sorry if I got that wrong.

[Triple Zero]

sorry i think i must have derailed the thread when i asked cain for clarification of "grand narrative"

the connection is that according to cain there seems to be a lack of grand narratives in current day life.

i would probably add to that, that the majority of available grand narratives are rather destructive or not very fulfilling to say the least.

in response to children being raised "hollow" as you mentioned in your OP.


now your real point seemed to be that it would be a good idea to raise children with some sort of discordian-flavour to it, as to make their lives more fulfilling see if that works?
cause i think it's obvious that the solution wouldn't really be to sell them up on some grand narrative, whether it be golden apples, baby jesus or futurism.

[AFK]

I'm not really even considering literally introducing Discordianism to kids.  I think there are certain ideals in Discordianism that would be useful to instill in kids but I certainly wouldn't use any Discordian/BIP packaging.  The schools would never let that kind of thing in.

I don't know what the answer is, I know what the problem is.  I've heard it over and over again from kids and young adults.  The ones who really got lost in substance abuse and other addictions had voids that needed to be filled.  Most start in the family.  But, it seems they can be reinforced in schools through working them too hard and not allowing for any meaningful self-discovery.  This is just what I've observed in my research.  Kids just want to belong to something and feel a part of something.  They don't want to be isolated.  If it means doing lines of coke to fit in with something, then it will be much more attractive to that sort of kid then someone who feels like they are a part of a community, whether it be family or in school. 

[guest7654]

reminds me of some native american saying he felt sorry for the white man because he would never know a tribe. 

[Jenne]

That's why gangs and gang violence are so prevalent in parts of society that have those gaps in "tribalism."

Kids are easily drawn into these choices because they choose to "belong"--to whoever will accept them.  They are taught to survive, not make the best long-term choice.  Survival means day -to-day, not year to year.

The clean up is a cost society hates to pay, because those writing the checks are those who were guided into choices that they may resent for their staid, predictable character, but were safer and yielded "better" more lucrative results in the meantime.

None of this shit is easy.  None of this shit gets easier with time.  Once you are in the middle of it, it's suck after suck.  Sigh.  No one tier of this is really doable, or even get-atable.  It has to also come from the INSIDE of the particular microculture...not outside.

Otherwise it just looks like a finger in the hole of a breaking dam.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Okay everybody, do you really, really want to have an impact on the future of this hunk o rock?  I mean, of course, besides taking up bandwidth on an internet forum?  Well, this may sound very psa-cheezy but here it is, mentor a child.  Seriously.

Fuck yeah.  Send me a dozen of the little bastards, and a check for $20,000.  I'll soften the little shits up with trenchwork for a summer.  You won't recognize them when they get back...that I can promise you.

TGRR,
Knows you can't spell "tormentor" without "mentor".

[Ambassador KAOS]

I like this thread, it's bouncy.

Mentoring a child?  I don't think so.  I have no pitty for the majority.  I was raised under presepts similar to what Rog posted above.  It wasn't fun.

Truth be told however, having a shitty background doesn't have to be the end of the world.  Things like physical/mental/sexual/substance abuse are not the be all end all of a person.

Point in case.  I knew people in my childhood who died from smoking after 70 years of doing it, claiming, "I can't quit."

This set the standard and I was a smoker at 13.  I claimed I wanted to quit the whole I time I did it and "attempted" several times but failed miserably. 

Then one day I actually decided to quit because it was just too damned expensive.  I quit right then and haven't bought another pack in years, nor do I ever want to.

I made the choice to quit just like they made the choice not to.  Much like these child-adults make choices that land them in jail.

Granted I think it sux when children get crappy circumstances thrust upon them before they are able to even understand the repricutions, but hey mang, I been there, done that, seen the movie, got the t-shirt, puked passed out, and did it again. 

You can still grow out of your shitty circumstances and in many cases be stronger and more able than those who missed out on all the abuse.

The simple fact is that moving from childhood into society starting when you enter kindergarten or pre-school is by it's very deffinition abusive.  there is no way to get by unscathed or be "normal" the thing is everyone thinks they are an individual separate from the herd, especially when hitting puberty, they just don't know that everyone else feels the same way until some time down the road, usually after college.

I don't mentor children, but I do mentor people who want to better themselves and I've been doing it for a while.  Some of them are young and had there issues to work through, but since they wanted something more I showed them what I could and they, in turn did what they could with it.

Some of these people could be called "kids" with the youngest one being 14 and 11 when I started mentoring her, but I don't consider her a child and I often have more respect for her than some of the ignorance I encounter in "adult society".

Help those that can be helped, so long as you are willing and able to do so.

Props on Cain's metanarative and LMNO's conclusions.  They were provocative.

[Jenne]

You are a BUNDLE of contradictions, Mr. AKK.

[Ambassador KAOS]

You are a BUNDLE of contradictions, Mr. AKK.

Thank you.  I pride myself on that...

or do I? (holy crap son, that was a lame pun).

[LMNO]

Worse: it wasn't even a pun.