Nietzsche: On Truth and Lie in the Extra-Moral Sense

[HBOMB]

this statement from him struck me:

For they must all bear within themselves the laws of number, and it is precisely number which is most astonishing in things. All that conformity to law, which impresses us so much in the movement of the stars and in chemical processes, coincides at bottom with those properties which we bring to things. Thus it is we who impress ourselves in this way. In conjunction with this, it of course follows that the artistic process of metaphor formation with which every sensation begins in us already presupposes these forms and thus occurs within them.

all this is completely and solely contained within the mathematical strictness and inviolability of our representations of time and space. But we produce these representations in and from ourselves with the same necessity with which the spider spins.

Is he saying we can't escape the numbers?  That by our own creation in numbering and the systems and laws they are relayed within we have bound ourselves?  Also that the metaphoric creation is possibly bound in this manner or that metaphoric formation is our way of escaping the numbers...or is it both? 

Pretty much the first three, yeah.  If we are the pattern makers, one of the fundamental patterns we use are the numbers.  But numbers themselves are abstractions of metaphors (if each lemon is slightly different from the others, then the word "lemon" is a metaphor.  To say that we have 5 lemons, you are stacking the metaphors together, making patterns of patterns).  We tend to think in the foundational systems we have made, so our thinking is contained within the numbers; that is, the numbers we use influence and shape our pattern making.

I like where he went with this, in that patterns are dissolved in dreaming, as well as in some art, so that experiencing art is akin to dreaming.

At least, I think that's what he said.






Also, YA: Shut up.

I liked that aspect as well.  A very happy little piece of freedom.

It helps embrace art such as Miro and Klee more readily...to experience them from that POV.

It brings an elegance to the whimsy of it all.

[guest7654]

That immense framework and planking of concepts to which the needy man clings his whole life long in order to preserve himself is nothing but a scaffolding and toy for the most audacious feats of the liberated intellect.

loved this quote...

There exists no word for these intuitions; when man sees them he grows dumb, or else he speaks only in forbidden metaphors and in unheard-of combinations of concepts.

like zomgfnordpineal23

[LMNO]

It struck me last night, as I was thinking about this thread, that people dig it when someone quotes neitzche about how language is an arbitrary structure that shapes our thoughts by its very nature, but if you mention the words "General Semantics" everyone goes completely batshit.

But Korzybski essentially sounds like a mathematical/scientific version of cain's original quote.

[AFK]

I'm just comforted by the fact that I'm not the only one who thinks about threads whilst not on the boards.   

[guest7654]

It struck me last night, as I was thinking about this thread, that people dig it when someone quotes neitzche about how language is an arbitrary structure that shapes our thoughts by its very nature, but if you mention the words "General Semantics" everyone goes completely batshit.

But Korzybski essentially sounds like a mathematical/scientific version of cain's original quote.

Who goes batshit?

[P3nT4gR4m]

It struck me last night, as I was thinking about this thread, that people dig it when someone quotes neitzche about how language is an arbitrary structure that shapes our thoughts by its very nature, but if you mention the words "General Semantics" everyone goes completely batshit.

But Korzybski essentially sounds like a mathematical/scientific version of cain's original quote.

Who goes batshit?

Everyone!

[guest7654]

Everyone sucks.....

[P3nT4gR4m]

Everyone sucks.....

Awful troof ITT

[LMNO]

It struck me last night, as I was thinking about this thread, that people dig it when someone quotes neitzche about how language is an arbitrary structure that shapes our thoughts by its very nature, but if you mention the words "General Semantics" everyone goes completely batshit.

But Korzybski essentially sounds like a mathematical/scientific version of cain's original quote.

Who goes batshit?

Ok, fine.  Some people go batshit.  It's all "ugh, semantics is a bullshit parsing of language, devoid of meaning," and all that.

[Jenne]

Naw.  Without semantics you have nothing to discuss.

Ok, yes, you have ridicule of the idiotic, but other than THAT.