BIP for Kids (Johnny Learns About the World)

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

winnar!

Though I would suggest that we ask anyone but Net to illustrate.  We don't want the kiddies having nightmares afterall. 
But srsly, I like. 

Forget the kids, I've got so much on my plate right now I'm having having nightmares.

Though it would be a helluva fun project...

[Jasper]

Instead of teaching information by rote such as specific ideaology/philosophy, engage them in conversations and question thier posits and make them think critically?

[Triple Zero]

i think the story is kickass, and actually, i love the HIMEOBS pun .. sad thing if it couldn't be left in

i can feel Cain's concerns, but in this case i think the story is simple and general enough that the boundary is not crossed. it basically teaches "think for yourself" (or rather "things are not always what they seem"?), even though this is one of the ground beliefs of discordianism, i think it falls along the same category as teaching "thou shalt not steal", which also can hardly be called teaching christianity.

about the pictures, i'm afraid some of them would be too detailed to work as pictures. reading it and imagining the pictures the description feels more like an animated cartoon. imagine the following ideas as one picture (each)
- a bird disturbing an apple which falls onto the ground
- Johnny bites into a rotten part of the apple, showing it’s bruise
- Johnny has leaned into a puddle of oozing sap (especially differentiating between oozing sap and some random off-coloured bit of a tree is hard to do)

i was especially thinking about very simple friendly children's book illustrations, some of this might be too detailed?

maybe it could work as a cartoon/comic, using multiple pictures for one of the ideas in the square brackets (esp. the bird disturbing an apple which falls off, would need two or three pics)

but maybe other graphics artists think they can pull this off (i couldn't, my drawings are always very simple, yet--at least i hope--powerful)

[LMNO]

If I have time, and the boss isn't looking over my shoulder, I'll try to do a storyboard.

And Felix, if you notice, the story asks questions of the reader.  "What else is a bird", etc.  That way you can go off book, and make the kid think of other things a bird "is".

[AFK]

Interesting discussions.  I would never envision literally getting a child into the BIP stuff through a book.  In fact I wouldn't use any BIP jargon or imagery.  I think you can very easily get at BIP concepts without using the literal language and LMNO has already demonstrated that.  For me, the idea would be to reinforce the sense of wonder about the world that young children, by their very nature, are full of.  I think too often society intervenes and says, okay play time is over, now it's time to get serious.  I think the idea is to instill in children, at an early age, that they should never forsake this while they are growing up.  Sure, they have to be resonsible when they get older about certain things, but they don't have to check their personality, creativity, and their spark at the door. 

I don't think converting kids to BIP is the goal.  I think the goal is to get across to kids that they should never stop looking at their world the way they are now. 

[Ambassador KAOS]

Good sollid stuff.

Just another angle to think about...

I like the idea of it as also being another introductory  brochure for adults too, left at the bus station, pool hall etc...

Something about children's book writing for adults makes them feel nice and cozy.  They don't take it too seriously (and thus will be open minded in approach) and will want to over analyze it to see what the point of the thing is.

The trick would be not to dress it up too much like the watchtower (that thingy used by the "we're fucked up on the lord" people) which I know I personally avoid like the plaugue.  An inviting title in this respect would work, I think...

Anyhow.  my $.02

[AFK]

I have in mind a separate product for parents.  I just need to get around to doing it.  It appears the wife is planning a girl's night out soon.  Once my kiddo is in bed I plan on working on a couple of BIP projects.  We'll see how it goes. 

[LMNO]

...and out come the noseflutes.

[AFK]

Nah, this time I'm thinking kazoo and jaw harp.   

[Jasper]

LMNO, nice touch there. 

As an aside, maybe this "for children" pamphlet would be more effective for universal use. 

People are really stupid.

[LMNO]

I'm sure a really good illustrator could put all kinds of hidden visual jokes in there.

[Jenne]

Ok, mind if I add a few comments?  As a Mom-type person?

The language of the book is very simple...very, juvenile.  Even for kids.  You can't just pick up this book and know what it's about.  It's worded like a 5 year old level book, but the concepts, coming from the author, are way more complex (obviously) and need thought and forethought.

I'm just wondering if you need something MORE with the book, a guide or a visual or even a lead-in introduction that explains why the questions ask what they do, and what possible answers can be given.  *shrug*

Otherwise, it's pretty brilliant in its concept and manifestation.

[LMNO]

interesting.  Jenne, I am very interested in your opinions.

forgive the bluntness of the following:

1. What do you think the correct age range/reading level of the audience should be?

2.  Should this book be for forward thinkers, or to be subersive, like Sendak or Silverstein?

[cyberus]

Nah, this time I'm thinking kazoo and jaw harp.   

I was just playing a harmonica and a jaw harp last night.  The fun bit is trying to teach someone else how to use the jaw harp, and watching them almost crack their teeth as they do it all wrong.

[Jenne]

interesting.  Jenne, I am very interested in your opinions.

forgive the bluntness of the following:

1. What do you think the correct age range/reading level of the audience should be?

2.  Should this book be for forward thinkers, or to be subersive, like Sendak or Silverstein?

1.  Probably 2d grade and up.  Here's why:  abstract thinking is a very rudimentary concept in the young.  Basically, kids take things pretty literally as a general rule unless they are already attuned to the non-literal.  I have one kid who did this at 4, one kid who at 6 is still stuck in the literal world in front of his face.  It doesn't mean one is smarter, it's just how they look at the universe and manipulate it for their own gain.

So you have to ask yourself (or not, it's your choice):  who are you trying to reach?  the already-abstract thinkers by nature (a pretty small group) who might be able to grasp what you are trying to convey?  Or the ones who might need a little bit of sidetracking out of the world right in front of them they've been taught to actualize, and then open up a new world for them by just asking them, "is this bird blue or red, and why can't it be both?"...etc.

2.  I think I might have touched on the answer to this in the above, but really, it depends on the overall message you want to give out.  Do you need subversity?  Or is a gentle nudge toward the discordian view all that is needed?  What is the overall goal?  Seems to me it's a mild introduction for a very juvenile audience.

Let me know if this cleared things up or scared up more questions.