Briefly weighing in on the Parenting Dilemma:

[LHX]

Q: Is it possible to love somebody and still smack the shit out of them?

A: Yes.

[Jasper]

Emotions can make us do unpredictable things.  Love has little to do with other emotions, it seems to coexist seamlessly with any other emotion.

[LHX]

what you say is true

but
in some circumstances - im saying it may be a sign of love to deliver a beating to something/someone


(this understanding extends to the fact that things that love you can also deliver a swift ass-kicking if the situation is ripe)

[AFK]

I can't relate to it personally, being a father.  However, I can recognize and understand how this can be the case for others.  I've never been to the point where I wanted to use any sort of corporal punishment on my daughter.  Sure, there have been several times where she's really pushed my buttons and got me agitated, but I guess my programming makes me just throw my hands up and walk away.  But it's different for other people and I'm loathe to get into THAT can of worms of morals and ethics. 

[DJRubberducky]

Personally, I think love leads to fear leads to ass-beating.

Example: Your child starts wandering away from your side and comes very close to stepping off the sidewalk into a busy street.  Had that been me, my mother would have seized me immediately and swatted me on the hand or buttocks, and probably yelled also.  This is because her love for me turned into stark terror at the idea of my getting hit by a car, so she wanted to condition me *against* stepping out into the street in the future.  And she used pain infliction to set up that conditioning.

I have no insights on whether this is a useful thing, or an effective thing.  But I am pretty sure on the "Love -> Fear -> Ass-beating" train of thought.  Heck, didn't we have a thread once about Fear and Desire (Love) being looped together?  Pretty easy to switch from one to the other.

[Deepthroat Chopra]

Have you ever heard those folks that justify hitting their kids with a statement like "I was hit as a kid, and I turned out alright!"? I usually find these people are total arseholes with no insight. I was hit as a kid, and know I'm some kind of weirdo. Not that that explains cause-and-effect.

I have hit my kids (I have two) a couple of times, and it's been more about the arbitrary mood I was in at the times, rather than through any objective standard punishment for what they've done. I did notice, though, that it had my desired effect - they modified their behaviour to what I wanted.

Still, I stick to a belief in no corporal punishment. I (or we, to include my lover) believe that short-term modifications of behaviour are not worth potential long-term problems that I perceive can occur in personality, character and spirit because of hitting.

I don't look harshly on folk that smack their kids. I just think there's better ways.

[LHX]

it would to be a rare situation in which it would make sense to lay a ass-whooping on somebody/thing you love

but
rare situations do occur from time to time

[AFK]

So far I've managed to find creative ways to get my daughter to listen without resorting to that sort of thing.  Most of the time targetting a toy she really loves seems to help.  So instead of putting her in time out threatening to put her favorite toy train in time out seems to have a good effect.  Of course there are times where a 3 year old is going to be a 3 year old, irrational.  Then, you really need to get creative, and patient. 

[LHX]

for the record - i dont have kids


and altho it annoys the shit out of me when somebody says that things 'mahdjgickqually' change when your seed gets planted and crawls out the womb - i will admit that i do not have that first-hand experience



i started this thread as a extension of the observation that sometimes people in general require a beating that would prevent them from entering a situation where they would get beat even worse

not necessarily a child or your child - but anybody in general



the only thing attached to this is the fact that there is tremendous responsibility placed on the person delivering the beating

ie - if a person delivers a beating incorrectly or for wrong reasons - they will catch it back
and prolly worse



but
if you have to temporarily decomission a person in order to prevent them from calamity
there dont seem to be a problem with that



(i could be wrong of course)

[LMNO]

How much of a beating are we talking here?

[LHX]

i dunno man

discretion etc

[P3nT4gR4m]

Can't help thinking that there's better ways to physically restrain someone than kicking the shit out them.

Although prolly not as much fun it might leave less dents in your loved ones.

[LHX]

im sayin tho - if you had to do it then you have to do it

tho i still cant think of any situations where it would be necessary

[AFK]

of course culturally, there are people who would argue that it is mandatory for proper child rearing.  For example Cambodian cultures and Sudanese cultures have a traditional element of corporal punishment in their child rearing.  And I imagine they would say that it is out of love. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Might be out of hate too.

We have a strong tradition of domestic violence in this country, going back centuries.

Bottom line - there's every chance that some day your kid is gonna come at you wif a knife. At that point I'll most likely cripple the fucker.

Sweet sharp spinal trauma