Enough

[Cramulus]

But its true.  I remember at MW, where they were talking about telling their co-workers, or "coming out of the broom closet".  Who gives a shit?  I mean, really?  Sure, if I want to be your friend or are interested in you in other ways, I might eventually ask a question like that, but its hardly a top priority.  Same for flaunting my own beliefs.

In short, stfu, no-one cares what you believe.  If you're so Pink you feel compelled to have to let everyone know how you label yourself, well thats your problem and I hope you get used to the consequences.

SRSLY! If a coworker ever "came out of the broom closet" to me (I lol'd at that phrase) I'd say "Yes, and I jerk off in the bathroom right after lunch. Now we both know unnecessary personal facts about each other."

[Cain]

Sadly, its a real phrase, the "broom closet".  Cuz, you know, gays have very nearly been oppressed as much as pagans (srsly).

[Jenne]

Too long has spirituality blinded the meek and gullible.  It is worse than pooping your pants, because you need more than a diaper to wipe clean the damage people have done because of it.  Too long has the raunchy stench of superstitious beliefs of popular cults inflamed my nostrils and stimulated my gag reflex.  I find it vomitous that people would insist in the existence of the paranormal.  You do it, I know you do.  I hate that shit.  Somewhere in your thoughts lies the hard-headed hope that there's some higher power waiting to tell you what a good job you've done, or whatever recognition you're expecting that won't come.  It makes me sick to my guts that people assume it so easily.  Because you're AFRAAAID.  Scared to shitting yourself silly that there's no big authority watching everything and making it all happen in some mysteriously justified fashion.  It simply isn't so.  Religion falls right apart under scrutiny, and the only people who ever believed it completely never cared to check.

I'm a fucking APE, and so are all of you!  Hahahaa!!  Religion is shit!

I keep wondering, after reading this OP, what would happen if the world were without religion entirely.  Would it in fact BE a better place to live in?

I sorta doubt it.  For the origins of religion and religious belief would still remain.  The lack of understanding and the fundamental doubt in the senses would not be relegated to some backwater of "simply unknown" or "unknowable."

And one prejudice would simply replace another.  It's not the thing itself, in other words, that's to be so despised and ridiculed but rather the actual behavior and resultant theories that are brought about in the quandary and quest for knowing all things about all things.

I have no other real explanation than that for how I've seen religion played out.  And I've seen a LOT of religion in my short 34 years of life.

[Cain]

Enough was also the most shit film I have ever seen, using that hack martial art, "Krav Maga" and starring J Lo of all people

[Jasper]

Jenne,  I would never presume to conjecture about "how things would be different if ____".  I don't really have any regrets about history, because it's what made me and everything I know.  Rather I am interested in being rid of spirituality, as I feel that we are capable of moving forward from it.

It was always a lie, even if it was useful in many cases.  It's stopped being useful.

[Deepthroat Chopra]

Good call.


Tough one, though.

I can't claim that one. Got it from the former Boston bishop Spong, from his book Why Christianity must Change or Die.

That dude calls himself a christian but he is coming dangerously close to earning some modicum of begrudged respect from me.

Hes got my respect. Then again, the Episcopaelians aren't all that bad anyway, christian wise.

I wonder if theres a pdf floating around somewhere...

I haven't read Spong for a while, but I did a lot when I was "a believer" from the ages of 16 to 21. I particularly liked "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism", which is a good account of the history of the writing of the bible, and one that I was amazed was written by such an insider. It could have been written by Dawkins, almost. Well, you know.

Found this PDF of an interview:

This page has a few pdf's:

http://unjobs.org/authors/john-shelby-spong

Here's an excerpt from the book mentioned above:

http://www.bishopspongbooks.com/files/ChptExcerpt_RescuingTheBible.pdf

[B_M_W]

Jenne,  I would never presume to conjecture about "how things would be different if ____".  I don't really have any regrets about history, because it's what made me and everything I know.  Rather I am interested in being rid of spirituality, as I feel that we are capable of moving forward from it.

It was always a lie, even if it was useful in many cases.  It's stopped being useful.

You're still using the word spirituality wrong.

This is Wikipedia on the word:

Spirituality, in a narrow sense, concerns itself with matters of the spirit. The spiritual, involving (as it may) perceived eternal verities regarding humankind's ultimate nature, often contrasts with the temporal, with the material, or with the worldly. A sense of connection forms a central defining characteristic of spirituality ,Äî connection to something "greater" than oneself, which includes an emotional experience of religious awe and reverence. Equally importantly, spirituality relates to matters of sanity and of psychological health. Like some forms of religion, spirituality often focuses on personal experience (see mysticism).

Spirituality may involve perceiving or wishing to perceive life as more important ("higher"), more complex or more integrated with one's world view; as contrasted with the merely sensual.

Many spiritual traditions, accordingly, share a common spiritual theme: the "path", "work", practice, or tradition of perceiving and internalizing one's "true" nature and relationship to the rest of existence (God, creation (the universe), or life), and of becoming free of the lesser egoic self (or ego) in favor of being more fully one's "true" "Self".

According to that opening paragraph, your utopian ideals and such would be considered spirituality. Would you part with that?

[Jasper]

Jenne,  I would never presume to conjecture about "how things would be different if ____".  I don't really have any regrets about history, because it's what made me and everything I know.  Rather I am interested in being rid of superstition as I feel that we are capable of moving forward from it.

It was always a lie, even if it was useful in many cases.  It's stopped being useful.

Fixed. 

[LMNO]

Ok, now, we should probably parse the difference between spirituality and superstition.

[Jasper]

I'm not about to dig too deep into references, but for my part superstition is more the type of shit people will do against all reason in reaction to a fabrication they've accepted as truth.

[LMNO]

So, superstition is a habit, while spirituality is closer to an emotion?

[Jasper]

I like that distinction.  It's a habit and a memetic corruption of common sense.

[LMNO]

Common sense is often neither.

[Jasper]

I'd say because of

superstition
ineducation
teenage infantization

at the risk of sounding glibly idealistic.

[Darth Cupcake]

So, superstition is a habit, while spirituality is closer to an emotion?

I agree with Felix; this is a good distinction.

I tend toward the trite sometimes, so I might fall into that here. My general stance, though, is that spirituality tends to be more personal/independent. Superstition is something provided by external stimuli. Spirituality is something arrived at through the individual, and therefore should theoretically be more adaptable, if you will (which is why I like comparing it to an emotion--it isn't fixed/concrete). Superstition is something fed in by outside sources accepted at face value without personalization, which makes it far more concrete and habit-like. I also tend to separate spirituality from religion (an experience can be spiritual without having to have anything to do with religion, although I might raise my eyebrows at someone who described it as such). Superstition tends to be more tied in to religion or other group mentality institutions.

I dislike the term "spirituality," though, because of over-use of it by neo-pagan-wiccan-thingies who want me to open myself to my inner eye and fondle crystals, etc.

P.S. - Hi. I am newbsauce. Long lurker, new poster. Eviscerate at will, etc.