Enough

[LMNO]

Everything is retarded. Buddhism is one more interesting, retarded thing to do.

If you wanna do something that's not retarded you'll be a while doing nowt. 

That's retarded.

[Random Probability]

Brain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states.  Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever.  I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool.  It is exactly like mental masturbation.

Ok, sure.  But when you go there, you end up with, "everything is an electrochemical brain state".  Which is the neurociological equivalent of "we are all one."  It doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.

What is "special" about them is the potential they have to change behavior.  In this way, they are useful tools.

Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state.  That's the nature of the beast.  I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation.  Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does.  Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?

So, we arrive once again at "spirituality" being an emotional/electrochemical state, while religion/superstition are stale, outdated techniques originally designed to achieve that state.

True, but with a caveat.  "Spirtuality" is masturbation.  Religion is prostitution.  Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).

[LMNO]

I really feel like pushing back on this, but I don't know why yet.  I shall review the evidence & get back to you.

[Darth Cupcake]

Brain studies have figured out that those "divine" emotions are just electrochemical brain states.  Nothing special about them, other than they feel good/wierd/whatever.  I expect that there is an endorphin release involved, the body's best positive reinforcement tool.  It is exactly like mental masturbation.

Ok, sure.  But when you go there, you end up with, "everything is an electrochemical brain state".  Which is the neurociological equivalent of "we are all one."  It doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.

What is "special" about them is the potential they have to change behavior.  In this way, they are useful tools.

Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state.  That's the nature of the beast.  I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation.  Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does.  Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?

So, we arrive once again at "spirituality" being an emotional/electrochemical state, while religion/superstition are stale, outdated techniques originally designed to achieve that state.

True, but with a caveat.  "Spirtuality" is masturbation.  Religion is prostitution.  Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).

I just want to know what's so damn frowny about masturbation, whether literal or figurative! 

LMNO--I like your idea about religion/superstition being techniques originally designed to achieve said state. I don't know if this is necessarily what you were after, but that angle, in my mind, gives credit to what religions were initially after. Religions didn't start out as the stagnant, narrow things they often end up associated with. Christianity had to become big for some reason, for example.

Ben Franklin mentioned a religion he really liked--they didn't write down any of their philosophy/rules, because they figured that if they wrote it down, further down the line, people would take it as unchangeable; they wanted it to remain constantly changing. Too bad those guys didn't last; I can respect that.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

lol, you're a GIRL.

[Cain]

I really feel like pushing back on this, but I don't know why yet.  I shall review the evidence & get back to you.

Kick him in the nads.  In the NADS!


DC:  masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms.  Hence its "badness."  However, it will not make you go blind.

[LMNO]

Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state.  That's the nature of the beast.  I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation.  Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does.  Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?

First off, it seems that by this thinking, since you can reduce every single action and thought to an electrochemical state, doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that everything you do, think, and experience is masturbation?  And if so, doesn't that pretty much reduce your entire existence to a meaningless, inconsequential pool of DNA in the cosmic tubesock?  That's a pretty bleak view of the universe, if you ask me.

Secondly, the nature of the so-called "spiritual" experience isn't that you do it to yourself, it's that it is happening from the outside in.  Yes, this is not factually true, but it is what is often percieved.   So, it doesn't feel like masturbation, it's more like a handjob.

Thirdly, many people have made signifigant changes to their lives after such experiences: they've been friendlier, or more compassionate, or fanatical, or close-minded.  It has a much greater social impact than masturbation, even if, biologically, the two are similar.

"Spirtuality" is masturbation.  Religion is prostitution.  Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).

I'm not really following the analogy.

[DJRubberducky]

DC:  masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms.

I don't know if this still fits the analogy/allegory/whatever, but I'd like to point out just how many people like to have it both ways.  Oooh, their lives are better 'cause they get to fuck once in a while instead of "just" masturbating, but look closer and you'll see they've carefully structured the fucking so that it too achieves little in concrete terms.

[Darth Cupcake]

DC:  masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms.  Hence its "badness."  However, it will not make you go blind.

But what about my palms? Will they get hairy? 

Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state.  That's the nature of the beast.  I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation.  Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does.  Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?

First off, it seems that by this thinking, since you can reduce every single action and thought to an electrochemical state, doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that everything you do, think, and experience is masturbation?  And if so, doesn't that pretty much reduce your entire existence to a meaningless, inconsequential pool of DNA in the cosmic tubesock?  That's a pretty bleak view of the universe, if you ask me.

Secondly, the nature of the so-called "spiritual" experience isn't that you do it to yourself, it's that it is happening from the outside in.  Yes, this is not factually true, but it is what is often percieved.   So, it doesn't feel like masturbation, it's more like a handjob.

Thirdly, many people have made signifigant changes to their lives after such experiences: they've been friendlier, or more compassionate, or fanatical, or close-minded.  It has a much greater social impact than masturbation, even if, biologically, the two are similar.

"Spirtuality" is masturbation.  Religion is prostitution.  Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).

I'm not really following the analogy.

On your "first off," I was thinking something sort of along those lines. It gets awfully nihilistic if you start discounting anything that is just "feeling good." And then eventually someone will come running and smack you upside the head with a bar stool. Oh, wait, that felt BAD. All of a sudden feeling good doesn't seem quite so terrible anymore... But that's just how I see it.

DC:  masturbation = feels good, but achieves little in concrete terms.

I don't know if this still fits the analogy/allegory/whatever, but I'd like to point out just how many people like to have it both ways.  Oooh, their lives are better 'cause they get to fuck once in a while instead of "just" masturbating, but look closer and you'll see they've carefully structured the fucking so that it too achieves little in concrete terms.

I think it still fits, and it's a good point. I know I want to go somewhere with it, but I don't know where yet.

Our metaphorical masturbation or fucking can both be pretty pointless/worthless. Or, as LMNO pointed out, they can have a positive impact on a person, changing them for the better. Even if the output of something is just making you feel good, sometimes that's what it takes. Maybe it's not SIGNIFICANT and PRODUCTIVE in really Big^TM and Important^TM kinds of ways, but it sure as hell contributes. Let's not knock meaningless electrochemical reactions if in the end it still accomplishes something, even if that something is just serving as a catalyst for another reaction.

I know I had a point in here when I started, but... I lost it.

[P3nT4gR4m]

There is no good and no bad other than what we agree on.

And that only applies 'here'

[B_M_W]

There is no good and no bad other than what we agree on.

And that only applies 'here'

In one way thats true.

In another way, thats bullshit.

[Random Probability]

Of course "everything" is an electrochemical state.  That's the nature of the beast.  I was pointing out that these feelings of "being in touch with the divine" was nothing more than mental masturbation.  Sure, it alters behavior, but only in the same way that masturbation does.  Once you stop jacking off, what have you learned other than it felt pretty good?

First off, it seems that by this thinking, since you can reduce every single action and thought to an electrochemical state, doesn't that lead you to the conclusion that everything you do, think, and experience is masturbation?  And if so, doesn't that pretty much reduce your entire existence to a meaningless, inconsequential pool of DNA in the cosmic tubesock?  That's a pretty bleak view of the universe, if you ask me.

For the most part, yes, it is all vaguely like masturbating.  I don't see it as being bleak at all.  Don't you enjoy having orgasms?  (if you don't then I think you aren't doing it right)

Secondly, the nature of the so-called "spiritual" experience isn't that you do it to yourself, it's that it is happening from the outside in.  Yes, this is not factually true, but it is what is often percieved.   So, it doesn't feel like masturbation, it's more like a handjob.

"...isn't that you do it yourself"...  WTF?  It's all in your head, baby.  It only feels like it comes from the outside.  That perception has to do with the specific brain state you achieve through your mumbo jumbo.  So it's more like spanking off to thoughts of someone giving you a handjob.

Thirdly, many people have made signifigant changes to their lives after such experiences: they've been friendlier, or more compassionate, or fanatical, or close-minded.  It has a much greater social impact than masturbation, even if, biologically, the two are similar.

The masturbation meme is only an analogy.  It's what you spank off about that changes things in your head.  Jerk off to same-sex fantasies and you'll probably wind up doinking someone with similar plumbing.  Think happy-happy thoughts about world peace fuck fests and you'll probably want to engage in some of that as well.  It doesn't change the fact that the your conditioned endorphin response is keyed to the object of your fascination.

"Spirtuality" is masturbation.  Religion is prostitution.  Superstition is pretty much like being raped (frequently in the line of religion/prostitution).

I'm not really following the analogy.

True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation.  You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.

Religion is somebody else's fantasy.  This is what they jerk off to, and it makes them feel good.  Most people struggle with the spirtual side of their chosen religion because they are trying to "grasp" what it is about the fantasy that gives them the "happy ending".  In that regard all of the sheep in the flock are getting fucked day in and day out by somebody else who is getting off on the whole deal.  I invoked the prostitution meme because that embodies the idea of getting raped in slave like conditions, which is how I percieve the followers of all religions.

Superstitions are fears, plain and simple.  They are programmed into your head.  It's fine to be afraid of shit not going the way you expect it to, but it is superstition when you think that a telepathic thought, mumbled vocalizations, or magical rituals will influence the universe around you to prevent something bad from happening.  They are irrational and complete nonsense.  When you have an irrational panic, anxiety or aversion reaction to something, this is a programmed response not unlike PTSD.  What follows are various coping mechanisms.  In the case of superstitions, these coping mechanism take the form of magic rituals.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation.  You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.

So in your mind, conquering depression, mastering fears, and healing from abuse are the same as rubbing one off before work?


I don't think that's oversimplifying.  That's just retarded.

[P3nT4gR4m]

There is no good and no bad other than what we agree on.

And that only applies 'here'

In one way thats true.

In another way, thats bullshit.

Not if 'here' can be a room or the entire planet. There may well be one or two things that everyone on planet earth agree on but in most cases (even ones where you can't possibly entertain the notion that anyone could be against) there's prolly whole countries where they think that way.

[Random Probability]

True spirituality, the practice of seeking to "improve" oneself (yes, I'm oversimplifying), is like masturbation.  You make up the fantasy and it's all about you.

So in your mind, conquering depression, mastering fears, and healing from abuse are the same as rubbing one off before work?


I don't think that's oversimplifying.  That's just retarded.

I meant that it was an entirely solo experience.  Nobody else can help you find "enlightenment".  It's strictly a do-it-yourself project.