Lost Keys

[Mangrove]

Icke should take all his <ahem> theories and put them into a fictional narrative under a pseudonym. Boom! He's the new Dan Brown.

[LMNO]

Or one of us can do it.  He does the work, we make the profit.


[re-jack]

Ratz, where this seems to unravel is that you're using multiple definitions simultaneously for the same words, like "God", and you're taking some of the metaphors as "real stuff", like cells, bars, and prisons.

You seem to be saying that if there is a "cell", there must be an "architect" of the cell, and therefore also a "warden", etc.

But the thing is, there is no actual cell.  It's just a metaphor, a way of thinking about our thoughts and perceptions.  It's not actually real.

[Cain]

Or one of us can do it.  He does the work, we make the profit.

Three steps ahead of you.

Cain,
always thought Illuminatus! needed a modern sequel.  And may not even be joking.

[LMNO]

Niiiiice.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Or one of us can do it.  He does the work, we make the profit.


[re-jack]

Ratz, where this seems to unravel is that you're using multiple definitions simultaneously for the same words, like "God", and you're taking some of the metaphors as "real stuff", like cells, bars, and prisons.

You seem to be saying that if there is a "cell", there must be an "architect" of the cell, and therefore also a "warden", etc.

But the thing is, there is no actual cell.  It's just a metaphor, a way of thinking about our thoughts and perceptions.  It's not actually real.

What do you mean not actually real?

HERETIC!!!!

(you know your philosophy has made the bigtime when assholes start taking it literally)

[Mangrove]

All we need now is a huge argument and schism over the 'substance' of the bars of the cell and whether the cell, warden and prisoner are of the same substance but manifesting with different personalities or whether the prisoner is subordinate to the warden.







Or not.

[guest7654]

bars, cell, warden....I think we got a trinity here.....

Or one of us can do it.  He does the work, we make the profit.


[re-jack]

Ratz, where this seems to unravel is that you're using multiple definitions simultaneously for the same words, like "God", and you're taking some of the metaphors as "real stuff", like cells, bars, and prisons.

You seem to be saying that if there is a "cell", there must be an "architect" of the cell, and therefore also a "warden", etc.

But the thing is, there is no actual cell.  It's just a metaphor, a way of thinking about our thoughts and perceptions.  It's not actually real.

Well of course the cell is a metaphor.  But metaphors stand for something right?  Like the old bearded man in the sky is not really there, (but of course some people think He is.)

The architect, or the chaos that wound up in this state of being, or your imaginary old man with lightning bolts, are all metaphors of what is, right? 

I don't see where you get that I think the cell is real?  That is lunacy. 
I don't think there is a pit of fire you go to after you die, but that doesn't stop me from trying to put meaning behind the metaphor.  Such as, you do very bad things, you wind up in a very bad position (in life.) 

And IMO, as for the bars referred to in Lost Keys, they are a very similar metaphor to the one in BIP.  Even if they have certain, major differences.  I am not trying to say that it is more right.  Just that you all are a bunch of unoriginal bastards.  j/k  

Plus, I like masonic writings and ideas.  IMHO, very similar to many Discordian ideas on many levels.  But thats just my opinion, and I am usually full of shit.

*runs for cover*

[Darth Cupcake]

Of course it's just a metaphor. But I think the point is that there's no need to over think said metaphor. Take the cell and run with it.

Don't worry about adding in everything like wardens and architects, etc etc etc. Just take the metaphor and work with what's there, rather than trying to spread it too thin. I think, at least.

Like I could use my car as a metaphor for something and then someone would say, "But you drive stick, and that totally doesn't work with your metaphor." And then I'd have to go stabbity stab with a grapefruit spoon. It's not pretty. The lesson here is: look at what the metaphor is after, rather than going after over thinking it and expanding it unnecessarily.

Sorry, LMNO, if I completely derailed that.

[P3nT4gR4m]

All we need now is a huge argument and schism over the 'substance' of the bars of the cell and whether the cell, warden and prisoner are of the same substance but manifesting with different personalities or whether the prisoner is subordinate to the warden.







Or not.

So how do you stand over the issue of 'original crime'?

[LMNO]

Rzas, I understand you're not dumb enough to think that if you look hard enough, you'll actually see/feel black iron bars surrounding you.

What I am saying is that you should avoid falling into the trap of parallel extrapolation.  You hear "Black Iron Prison", you think of IRL prisons, and you begin to make parallels.  "A real prison has guards, wardens, communal showers, and conjugal visits," you say.  "So that means that the BIP metaphor must contain the same things!"

It's not the same thing as eating the menu, but it's similar.

[P3nT4gR4m]

If it says on the menu 'prison' you got a rough idea whats gonna happen tho, no?

what you call 'parallel extrapolation' has got to happen hasn't it? That's the reason you called it "black iron prison" and not "white fluffy cupcake" or even just "the thing"
For a metaphor to work the map has to describe the territory.

[LMNO]

Well, think about it.


You are in a situation where you cannot and will never, see the whole of the Universe, for biological and psychological reasons due to the fact that you are human.

You are in an inescapable situation.  What would you call it?

[P3nT4gR4m]

1) I don't see it as inescapable, just largely unexplored

2) We've had this conversation before

3) I'd call it fun

[LMNO]

1. Different metaphor
2. I know
3. Not that useful, in this situation.

[P3nT4gR4m]

1) prolly

2) you know how this ends then

3) more useful (from my pov) than 'prison'

example:

You've won some gameshow on teevee and they hand you two cards and tell you to pick your prize

1 card says 'fun' and the other card says 'prison' Now I know you're gonna say "I'd choose prison" iirc that's kinda how you got out of this last time but, back in the real world, how do you think the votes would fall if you gave the choice to a focus group?