Author Topic: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut  (Read 3113 times)

LHX

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contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« on: June 08, 2007, 12:26:00 pm »
the kneejerk reaction to the suggestion of 'contempt' being a motivating factor is not generally positive

but

if you probe beneath the surface a little it might not be all that foundationless


in recalling some of vonnegut's work i remember him (on more than one occasion) referring to his characters having never asked to have been born


i think i have brought this up in the past on these boards - the whole perspective about having been thrust into a less-than-nurturing situation where it is a struggle to thrive



obviously - whenever a topic like this comes up on a board where there are intelligent folk skilled at the art of being contradictory for no apparent reason - some jerk off always decides to be 'outlandish' and say something to the effect of 'i did ask to be born' etc

but
as i explore this whole prison/shrapnel idea - i can guarantee that i did not consciously 'ask' for this
and it often annoys the fuck out of me to be experiencing it

however i am willing to endure it (as tho there is any other choice)



work tirelessly and rest well

shits and giggles

topple the machine etc




summary:
it is reasonable to be motivated by contempt at having been thrust into a adverse situation


i think Net has it as his signature somewhere:
'life is no way to treat a animal'

or something to that extent


to quote Nick Nolte in that movie:
"get mad you sons of bitches"
neat hell

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2007, 01:41:12 pm »
I've been in the 'thrust into situation' mindset before. Can't say I enjoyed myself there. There's a notion of being unfairly treated, especially when compared to others who were thrust or manoeuvred themselves into better positions.

I don't really dwell there anymore. As I see it now I was thrust into consciousness which, in itself is a matter of interpretation. I could interpret this as a bad situation, hell, I still do from time to time but the situation is something a talking monkey, whose existence I am privy to, finds itself in. It's an illusion that still holds true, even when the monkey is nailed with a ten ton barstool.

The 'fun' part comes in maintaining this perspective under situational pressure. The worse things get the better the pay-off when you finally manage to see the funny side. So I was 'thrust' into awareness but, tbh, I cant help thinking of this more as a blessing than a curse, I mean what the fuck else would I be doing?

Nowadays I look around and I see a lot of monkeys who seem to lack the higher faculty. Totally taken in by the bullshit they are fed, utterly at the mercy of the shrapnel that hits them and completely unwilling, perhaps even unable, to take a step back and actually see themselves, in the situation and appreciate the humour of it. Seeing them losing their heads over something so trivial as life and death can be hilarious. Catching myself doing it is even funnier.

Jesus wept on the cross, that's how you can tell he wasn't a real prophet. A real prophet would have gotten one last laugh in before his lungs gave out.
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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2007, 01:49:22 pm »
this is just Me, and not a universal truth or anything

emotions like contempt are bars in my black iron prison.
Rather than letting the red cape taunt my bull, I strive to realize that they are just emotions - and I should strive to act somewhat independently of them.


though I can see the value of contempt - certainly when I'm in a place where I hate everything it's time for a jailbreak.

LHX

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2007, 02:09:58 pm »
I've been in the 'thrust into situation' mindset before. Can't say I enjoyed myself there. There's a notion of being unfairly treated, especially when compared to others who were thrust or manoeuvred themselves into better positions.

I don't really dwell there anymore. As I see it now I was thrust into consciousness which, in itself is a matter of interpretation. I could interpret this as a bad situation, hell, I still do from time to time but the situation is something a talking monkey, whose existence I am privy to, finds itself in. It's an illusion that still holds true, even when the monkey is nailed with a ten ton barstool.

The 'fun' part comes in maintaining this perspective under situational pressure. The worse things get the better the pay-off when you finally manage to see the funny side. So I was 'thrust' into awareness but, tbh, I cant help thinking of this more as a blessing than a curse, I mean what the fuck else would I be doing?

Nowadays I look around and I see a lot of monkeys who seem to lack the higher faculty. Totally taken in by the bullshit they are fed, utterly at the mercy of the shrapnel that hits them and completely unwilling, perhaps even unable, to take a step back and actually see themselves, in the situation and appreciate the humour of it. Seeing them losing their heads over something so trivial as life and death can be hilarious. Catching myself doing it is even funnier.

Jesus wept on the cross, that's how you can tell he wasn't a real prophet. A real prophet would have gotten one last laugh in before his lungs gave out.

its not even a matter of weeping

the reason everybody loves that photo of the monk on fire is because it appears as tho he is overcoming pain

but the bottom line is - it would have been a world of difference if somebody else had set him on fire
before he was allowed to plunge into a 'centered' mindset


its not even about maintaining a mindset under pressure

its more about having your head held under water


you can have contempt and still enjoy the process of overthrowing that which is provoking the contempt
neat hell

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2007, 03:10:16 pm »
I've been in the 'thrust into situation' mindset before. Can't say I enjoyed myself there. There's a notion of being unfairly treated, especially when compared to others who were thrust or manoeuvred themselves into better positions.

I don't really dwell there anymore. As I see it now I was thrust into consciousness which, in itself is a matter of interpretation. I could interpret this as a bad situation, hell, I still do from time to time but the situation is something a talking monkey, whose existence I am privy to, finds itself in. It's an illusion that still holds true, even when the monkey is nailed with a ten ton barstool.

The 'fun' part comes in maintaining this perspective under situational pressure. The worse things get the better the pay-off when you finally manage to see the funny side. So I was 'thrust' into awareness but, tbh, I cant help thinking of this more as a blessing than a curse, I mean what the fuck else would I be doing?

Nowadays I look around and I see a lot of monkeys who seem to lack the higher faculty. Totally taken in by the bullshit they are fed, utterly at the mercy of the shrapnel that hits them and completely unwilling, perhaps even unable, to take a step back and actually see themselves, in the situation and appreciate the humour of it. Seeing them losing their heads over something so trivial as life and death can be hilarious. Catching myself doing it is even funnier.

Jesus wept on the cross, that's how you can tell he wasn't a real prophet. A real prophet would have gotten one last laugh in before his lungs gave out.

Flipping through some old saved documents on my computer (propaganda stuff in the folder "subvert the dominant paradigm") last night, I found one of my favorite old flyers. One of the lines on it I think is pretty useful here:

Quote
Encourage the existence of joy, rather than imagining joy in mere existence.

I know it sounds silly and trite, but I really genuinely like to think of the world and life as being full of near infinite, if not infinite, possibilities. There's a lot of fucking awesome to be had out there.

I agree with Cybin that you can get weighed down in the whole "thrust here unwillingly" concept. To me, that can really feel like a cop out--okay, so yeah, I was thrust here without anyone consulting my opinion on the matter. But I'm here, so I might as well run with it. Sure, I could commit suicide, but that seems kind of dumb. So ruling that out, there's really nothing I can do to negate this decision that was made for me. So let's just file that under "well, fuck it" and move on with things from here.

Sometimes, contempt can be good. It can help you see the bars of the prison, and more importantly, it can keep you away from those who DON'T. I know when I'm in a place where I'm at all unstable, I need to stay away from people/places/things that might trigger me. Keeping a little mental file of contempt is good for that: I can just do a quick look-up for who is worth spending some time with and who isn't.

As Cram said, though, contempt is like any other emotion. You don't want to let it run you. Use your emotions, instead of letting them use you. But, LHX, I get the feeling that you were already saying something along those lines; you don't seem to intend for contempt to run your life.

As Cyin said, "what the fuck else would I be doing?" So, as long as we're going to be here, being alive, let's do something with it. Sometimes contempt--and/or any other strong emotion--can be a tool that we can use to make the most of it. Other times, it's going to just be a detriment. Always remain conscious of yourself and your emotional state; maintain self control. Don't use emotions OR being thrust into life unwillingly as a cop out.

I don't know if this came out how I wanted, but I find this thread really interesting. I will probably try to clarify what I meant a little later; my brain is currently made of gelatin, which makes writing decently very difficult.

And on a side note, LHX, I really like the majority of stuff you write here. Nicely put and fantastic food for thought. Rock on. 8)
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LHX

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2007, 02:33:13 am »
yes

there is a lot of awesome to be had -- one of which are the discussions that occur on these board


on the whole - i definitely see the silver lining

i live in the silver lining

my clothes are made with silver lining

but
at this particular time and in this particular place
there is a lot of bullshit going on

my hunch is that the bullshit is a little bit out of balance


perhaps this is where contempt comes in


see - part of the trouble is that there is a intellectual rebuttal for virtually all definitive stances


if you try to value something - somebody will remind you how fleeting and transient everything is

if you try to be careless somebody will remind you that there are things that are worth cherishing and nurturing


if you take the messiah route - people will tell you to keep your ego in check
if you take a apathetic approach - people will warn you to get off your ass


its almost as tho there is some sort of answer that lies in a type of militant balance

being ruthlessly gentle
or reluctantly violent



as the beauty of the universe clashes with bullshit
and this clash intensifies
the bars of the prison become more apparent
and contempt is a great way to bust out -- guided by that beauty




jesus fuck did i just really repeatedly use the word  beauty?

im gettin soft
neat hell

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2007, 02:49:14 am »
This is why making vague statements and making taking bold action is the better way to go.  It's sneakier radicalism.

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2007, 03:24:00 am »
see - part of the trouble is that there is a intellectual rebuttal for virtually all definitive stances


if you try to value something - somebody will remind you how fleeting and transient everything is

if you try to be careless somebody will remind you that there are things that are worth cherishing and nurturing


if you take the messiah route - people will tell you to keep your ego in check
if you take a apathetic approach - people will warn you to get off your ass

I prefer to just, 90% of the time, cut out what other people say.

Because you're right--basically everything can be proved wrong. What you value can be proved worthless. What you find worthless can be proved important.

Find those who would challenge your stances in a significant way, such that it makes you think, and even if it shakes up your foundations, it still brings out that silver lining, if that makes sense.

Surround yourself with people who share your stances, though don't make them everyone around you lest you get too comfy.

If you worry too much about what other people say, particularly in the sense of attempted disproving, about your stances, you will drive yourself insane.

Not that I think that you are the type of person gullible enough to do that. I am just saying.

The point is, don't walk into the line of fire of the shrapnel.
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Jasper

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2007, 04:40:25 am »
Yeah, like in that link 000 posted about being good at things, it's about testing yourself constantly.

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2007, 02:44:05 pm »
Yeah, like in that link 000 posted about being good at things, it's about testing yourself constantly.

oh so you did like it, afterall? :)

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Jasper

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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2007, 07:06:54 pm »
I make fun of things I like sometimes.

It's a hilariously simple concept, and I do think it ties in with this thread.

You gotta keep testing your spiel against opposing viewpoints if you want it to survive as an ideal.


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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2007, 09:00:53 am »
i mostly posted it because i liked the "it's never too late to learn anything" reasoning, kinda comforting cause there's so much more things i want to do and learn in my life :)
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Re: contempt - courtesy of vonnegut
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 01:11:57 pm »
The basis of Absurdism is that we have been thrust into a situation we never asked for, and that there is no meaning for, and the only way to stop it is to end the experience entirely.

I just remind myself that the entire situation is mostly absurd.  There is a good quote by Taisen Deshmaru that I feel sums up a lot of my feelings on the matter:

"Human beings are afraid of dying. They are always running after something: money, honor, pleasure. But if you had to die now, what would you want?"