Pontificating, Teaching, Subverting or just Whacking Off?

[Cain]

You know, I had originally intended to put that phrase, occult secrets, in quotation marks.  I don't know why I didn't.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I just want to point out that every occult secret is either so banal that a sockfucker could figure it out, or so abstract as to be useless. 

You may now carry on.

The occult secrets you speak about are not the occult secrets you experience. You can read about perception manipulation all day long... but the 'secret' may exist only in the experience.

[Forteetu]

The occult secrets you speak about are not the occult secrets you experience. You can read about perception manipulation all day long... but the 'secret' may exist only in the experience.

[Triple Zero]

bump

cause forteetu mentioned hacking techniques as a metaphore for .. whatever we're doing here, and i just realized he was even more right.

it's all about "breaking out" of your current environment.

in the buffer overflow, you break out of the buffer to get into code-execution space
in the sql injection, you first break out of the quoted variable, then out of the current statement (and then into the database)
in the cross-site scripting (XSS), you break out of the HTML encoding, the javascript encoding, the current environment whereever your data is inserted. you break the first prison wall; a quote. you break the second prison wall; a closing bracket >; now you're "free", and that is where the fun really begins, because now you can do stuff that you couldn't do before.

... back to whatever i wasn't doing.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

bump

cause forteetu mentioned hacking techniques as a metaphore for .. whatever we're doing here, and i just realized he was even more right.

it's all about "breaking out" of your current environment.

in the buffer overflow, you break out of the buffer to get into code-execution space
in the sql injection, you first break out of the quoted variable, then out of the current statement (and then into the database)
in the cross-site scripting (XSS), you break out of the HTML encoding, the javascript encoding, the current environment whereever your data is inserted. you break the first prison wall; a quote. you break the second prison wall; a closing bracket >; now you're "free", and that is where the fun really begins, because now you can do stuff that you couldn't do before.

... back to whatever i wasn't doing.

Yep, I also have a book put out by the famed geek press "O'Reilly". It's called "Mind Hacks: Tips and Tools for Using Your Brain". I also have Phil Hine's "The Book of Atem: Secrets of Evocation for the 21st Century" the similarities seem quite interesting.

[Triple Zero]

i have mind hacks in electronic format but i can't really get into it, somehow.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

i have mind hacks in electronic format but i can't really get into it, somehow.

I noticed this too...

Maybe these sorts of things are best discussed within the less scientific models, Chaos Magic, 8-Circuits etc. It all seems to discuss the same stuff... but Bob's books, Carroll and Hine's stuff... state the idea with a depth and richness that Mind Hacks just doesn't seem to have.

Though, the similarities between its exercises and  chaos magic exercises leaves me to wonder if, perhaps the writers weren't perhaps familiar with the ideas and tried to restate them without the metaphors and mysticism... maybe it lost something in translation.

Or maybe comparing the writing quality of an O'Reilly book to RAW isn't fair

[Triple Zero]

well, from programming reference manuals and technical stuff, i know O'Reilly is really high quality stuff. not only for completeness and accuracy, but also the writing style is usually good to read.

i'm inclined to agree that the "chaos magic" or "occult" approach to the whole mindhacking business appeals more to me as well. of course, the added difficulty is that you need to keep your head clear, avoid consuming the menu and keep translating "what does this metaphore *really* mean".

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

well, from programming reference manuals and technical stuff, i know O'Reilly is really high quality stuff. not only for completeness and accuracy, but also the writing style is usually good to read.

i'm inclined to agree that the "chaos magic" or "occult" approach to the whole mindhacking business appeals more to me as well. of course, the added difficulty is that you need to keep your head clear, avoid consuming the menu and keep translating "what does this metaphore *really* mean".

I agree... but maybe that constant self-questioning is necessary to grok the concepts? Maybe it fits with Leary's "meta-programming" circuit or even Crowley's "Every Solider is followed by a Hunchback" !?!?!?!?!?

With quantum physics, we have to get our head out of normal reality and talk about concepts using metaphors that don't quite fit (Wave/Particle etc). Maybe to discuss the mind we are more able to function with the use metaphors that aren't trying to expressly state what IS going on, but rather as a more abstract model. Systems that analyze themselves seem difficult to do right.. if it can be done at all. However, a system should more easily be able to analyze a model (which happens to be very close to the system itself)... maybe.