Forward Progress

[Cramulus]

Page 2 is 2nd person.  It,Äôs mine, and if paired with the GSP, it might manage to make it through.  On consideration:  The ,ÄúJailbreak,Äù meme is misleading, as it implies freedom from prison.  Should I leave it in, only to reveal the horrible troof later?

Yeah I think that can stay. The hopeful though futile jailbreak is a complex idea that should be introduced in stages.

Page 3-4 (Cain?) is good when it talks of the 2 ideology con as it pertains to politics.  I think it should stay, but it might needs some punching up to add pizzazz.

I agree, I think this is a really strong section.

Page 5 (Wolfie?) is 2nd person, and preachy, and doesn,Äôt really pertain to the BIP as it is now.

link: http://www.poee.co.uk/bip/index.php?title=Scum[/quote]

I didn't like that passage either. Possibly because I don't like being called Scum over and over again. Too grim and condescending to become a part of my worldview. I vote for moving this to the literature section rather than the core BIP section.



more commentary later

[AFK]

Page 20 is mine.  I would disagree that it doesn't say anything.  I do however concede that it could be altered for better flow.  I shall undertake this myself and post the results.  

[LHX]

man

looking back at this

i dont even remember how we put it together in the first place


everybody being on almost the same page at almost the same time was a real rarity it seems

OR
maybe its just a matter of figuring out what the common denominator between all of us is
and firing from there




also -

i penned p. 7 and 9 i think

[AFK]

agreed, it seemed to be a real lightning in a bottle sort of thing.  Were we all pissed off at that time?  What pissed us off?  Can we get they, them, it to piss us off again?

[LMNO]

RWHN, Let me expand on page 20:

I think there's too much "you're a fucking sheep."

I think there's not enough, "we want to give you the vision to see your cell."

I also think the form could use a readjustment; we all seem to have a rant style that goes:

Situation.
Situation.
Problem.
Situation.
Problem.
Problem.
Problem.
BIG FUCKING PROBLEM.
SOLUTION!!!



I'm thinking that maybe you can sprinkle "solution" into the "Situation" or "Problem" sections, and not leave it for the end.

[AFK]

Yeah I got you.  I think it was a case of delving into the poetry of the metaphors and getting a little lost. 

[Triple Zero]

Plus, one could argue it sets up an "Us" vs. "Them" sceanario

actually, from a marketing point of view this might not even be such a bad idea at all.

when a reader reads it as an "Us" vs "Them" problem, he is subconsciously more likely to position himself in the "Us" category, and thereby more susceptible to whatever we say about the problem.

i dunno it seems like a sound theory, but maybe people with a background in persuasive writing/speaking can explore this.

oh, and afterwards it's just a question of whacking the "I'm better than They" idea out of them as hard as you can, but if they really "got" it by then, it shouldn't be so hard.

LHX Said:
> i dont even remember how we put it together in the first place

well as we can see from looking at the pamphlet now, it was also a big part due to the fact that LMNO just took whatever he could get his hands on and put it inside a Word document.

TBH, i think that last bit is all that stands in between us and the next pamphlet. there's enough writing and art, always has been.

[LMNO]

Heh.  Looking back a year later, really looking, I did a really shoddy job of hacking this all together.

But I wanted to have some product, so I did what I could.

[Triple Zero]

and the lesson learned?

better hack together a shoddy job while the momentum is there, than wait eternally for perfection.

strike while the iron is hot.

[P3nT4gR4m]

and the lesson learned?

better hack together a shoddy job while the momentum is there, than wait eternally for perfection.

strike while the iron is black.

[AFK]

Nothing wrong with using the services of DIY Express. 
Besides, I'm a bit of a sentimental softy for the original anyway.
But I can see how honing it isn't a bad idea either. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

It seems to me that there's still a question of what this pamphlet is supposed to do.

Right now, to me, it reads as an angry anarchist manifesto. If that's what the authors what it to be, then that's great... but it's doesn't feel like an updated PD. The PD, as far as I can tell, doesn't try to convert the reader... it simply invades the readers consciousness and plants ideas. BIP invades the readers consciousness and says "YOU ARE WRONG. THEY ARE WRONG. WAKE UP, YOU BASTARD."

Maybe the BIP's bleak and jagged edge would make a good Discordian manifesto, without being billed as "updated PD".

Perhaps we could consider the Black Iron Prison to be the darker companion to whatever an updated PD might be? Perhaps a preachy, second person Rant would be fine, and people that would prefer something less dark and more PDish, could begin work on the companion release.

Just a thought.


From my perspective, being that of a chaotic rodent and applicable nowhere except my own neurological system, the contributors of BIP seem to be using a fundamentally different tool than what the PD Does/Did/May Do... if thats the case, it may not be a rewrite it needs... just a quick polish and a companion horse of a different color.

[That One Guy]

A manifesto-ish addition to an updated PD is actually pretty similar to what I've been envisioning lately as I've been slowly ruminating on gathering a bunch of different things from these parts. That's an approach to it I can really get behind, especially since it seems to me to be a significant metaphore worthy of examination. However, it seems like an accompaniment rather than a full-fleged thing, even if it is fully capable of standing by its own merits.

Maybe sprinkling it inside whatever updating actually happens with the PD updating should be the goal to strive for, or adding it as an appendix, or using it as an introduction of sorts. Regardless, I'd love to see it included SOMEWHERE since it IS very powerful as a metaphore.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

another off-topic tangent from vex:

it would seem that whatever we produce, we need to narrow down (and even define, gods forbid) a Target Audience.

because writing stuff that applies to everybody means you have to water it down a lot.

the Internet gives a lot of options as far as who you want to talk to. but actually society hasn't been that much changed by the internet.  you can talk to whoever you want, but just like in the 60s, only subcultures on speaking terms with yours are going to listen.

seems to me that a lot of recent discordian stuff, mine included, is aimed at Everybody Out There, or tries to attack the mainstream, which is noble and everything, but it's also pretty futile.  if we're going to attack and assimilate, we should spread like a weed, starting with smaller and more similar groups.

subversion works best not by direct assault but by infiltration.  we should be producing a few different tracts and pamphlets all aimed at more specific audiences.  for example bring up the "similarities" between discordianism and the pagans, then use those similarities to twist their opinions about things.

as for conversion, it's easy to convert people to discordianism.  you just confuse them, but give them a good reason to stay confused.  we don't have to sell a worldview, we just have to take theirs away.

[LHX]

youth who already dont trust authority and the legacy of ineptitude that led to today