"We know what is best for you"

[The Johnny]

Historically speaking, I recall some examples of people trying to help people in the following manners:

-"We're going to teach these poor savages about God so that they may be saved"
-"We're going to teach liberty and democracy to these poor victims of a dictatorship"
-"We are going to get a court mandate to send this poor addict to rehab"
-"We should castrate poor people because they don't know any better"
-"We should deny Black people rights until they know how to use them"

(feel free to add new ones or correct the inaccurate ones, I'm no historian)

There is an inherent sense of superiority within all these statements, and it reminds me of a saying known to Spanish speakers "El camino al infierno esta pavimentado de buenas intenciones" (The road to hell is paved by good intentions). It's basicly saying "I am smarter than you, poor half-sentient creature, I know what is best for you".

Is that actually helping? Or is it just a way of justifying actions that are violent and self-serving?

Helping in its truest sense is about advising and providing support when somebody is in a vulnerable position... the International Monetary Fund gives out loans in exchange for following its dictates on policies, policies that will weaken that given country's political power in the long run... is that helping? Or is that being a vulture?

Politicians do "what is best for the population" all of the time, the problem is that, what they think is best for the population is tainted by their own agenda and class perspective (when they sincerely want to help, rather than just pillaging everything in their path).

In any variant of psycho-therapy, the therapist should only ever help the patient make its thoughts clearer, not ever to "advise" or tell them what to do... this is a basic principle to preserve the person's autonomy and the way to avoid being violent towards them.

There is a fine line between helping or violently propagating one's own agenda and will, and that line is "I know what is best for you".

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In the case of IMF, it's a million ton shit vulture.

In the case of the main point of the piece, helping people who have problems is one thing.  Forcing your help down their throat is wrong.  EOS.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

heh. Timely.

The last few days on the Hampshire Feminist Collective page i help run on FB have been about where noblesse oblige turns into condescending bullshit.

https://www.facebook.com/HampshireFeministCollective/posts/417035218393522?notif_t=like

and https://www.facebook.com/HampshireFeministCollective/posts/227109387431210?comment_id=939901&reply_comment_id=941105&offset=0&total_comments=18&notif_t=feed_comment

Jacky is a jackass, bloody middle class white lady who thinks she knows best. URGH.

[Juana]

I think the developing world is a pretty good example as to why "we know better than you and here's what you're going to do" is a shitty, shitty thing. Westerners tromping in and playing the white savior card (which is self-serving in that it's self aggrandizement - "look at me, helping these poor, poor wretches, so poor and ignorant that they do (x)"), and then fucking everything up or not doing anything actually constructive.


Edited for tags

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think the developing world is a pretty good example as to why "we know better than you and here's what you're going to do" is a shitty, shitty thing. Westerners tromping in and playing the white savior card (which is self-serving in that it's self aggrandizement - "look at me, helping these poor, poor wretches, so poor and ignorant that they do

• "), and then fucking everything up or not doing anything actually constructive.
  

Rudyard Kipling talked about that very thing in The White Man's Burden, and everyone ignored the satire and called him a racist.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I think the developing world is a pretty good example as to why "we know better than you and here's what you're going to do" is a shitty, shitty thing. Westerners tromping in and playing the white savior card (which is self-serving in that it's self aggrandizement - "look at me, helping these poor, poor wretches, so poor and ignorant that they do

• "), and then fucking everything up or not doing anything actually constructive.
  

Rudyard Kipling talked about that very thing in The White Man's Burden, and everyone ignored the satire and called him a racist.

WHOOSH----->(over heads) 

[The Johnny]

I think the developing world is a pretty good example as to why "we know better than you and here's what you're going to do" is a shitty, shitty thing. Westerners tromping in and playing the white savior card (which is self-serving in that it's self aggrandizement - "look at me, helping these poor, poor wretches, so poor and ignorant that they do (x)"), and then fucking everything up or not doing anything actually constructive.


Edited for tags

Well, the self-aggrandizement factor is another layer to the complexity, although ill say its not all encompassing and is a subset, because there is also a subset of people that when they say "help" is actually to "do my most darkest desires while trying to not look like an asshole"...

The first subset is about vanity "LOOK AT ME I'M SO NOBLE AND A(N) HERO"... so its more about the display of showful acts rather than bland-looking actions that actually have a real and benefitial impact... look at all the Occupy crowd... there is a huge difference between "helping" and "rescuing" which ill try to make... "helping" is within the thought-frame that the "helper" is not an all-powerful (asshole) and acknowledges its own limitations... the "rescuing" thought-frame is defective, because, unless you are a millionaire, you do not possess the resources nor time to do such endeavor, and some token symbolical action is not even close to doing that... there is also the factor of how the assisted person is viewed, within one thought-frame the person is a passive subject upon which benefitial actions are exersiced because they are useless like that, while in the other thought-frame there is an acknowledgement that we are dealing with a person capable of thoughts and actions.

Now, the other subset i referred to... this subset "fucks up and does nothing constructive" not because they are only seeking to boost their vanity, but because their objective was never to help in the first place... the explanation of the logic of their actions is actually just a justification for them... I had to go deep a dozen pages for this, but, here's an example:



So the problem of "We know what is best for you" can branch out in several directions:

-They don't really know what is best for you, more than you do yourself
-They actually don't really care about your best interest, but rather their vanity
-They actually don't really care about your best interest and actually want to fuck you up, but don't want to appear like cynical vultures to others and themselves.

[The Johnny]

heh. Timely.

The last few days on the Hampshire Feminist Collective page i help run on FB have been about where noblesse oblige turns into condescending bullshit.

https://www.facebook.com/HampshireFeministCollective/posts/417035218393522?notif_t=like

and https://www.facebook.com/HampshireFeministCollective/posts/227109387431210?comment_id=939901&reply_comment_id=941105&offset=0&total_comments=18&notif_t=feed_comment

Jacky is a jackass, bloody middle class white lady who thinks she knows best. URGH.

Regarding the 1st thread:

I can see how she uses a tone of "these poor and useless idiots"... but i disagree on the use of technical language if your objective is to communicate to the largest possible audience... im not talking about dumbing down the writing to apples and oranges, just that i prefer to not utilize obscure terms if there is a way i can convey the message in another form, because, after a certain (ambiguous) point, one ends up speaking in jargon that only other persons that are specialized in your field will understand in the first run, and i think that is unfair to the potential readers... it's not about thinking your audience is stupid, is about acknowledging your audience might not have the same exact cultural baggage that yourself has.

Regarding 2nd thread:

Jeez, i see why its related to this present thread, fucking jacky, im gonna X-post here so others can see the dialogue:

'If you want to 'help' Muslim women from your 'feminist' perspective, please respect the facts that; it is stupid to generalize all or most of them as helpless, that in certain parts of the world numerous Muslim women are already working on their strategies as well as solutions to their problems within their own religious-cultural context and religion is a source of empowerment for them when it comes to challenging mechanisms of patriarchy tied with capitalist ideals. Respect the fact that imposing your Western-centric solutions may not work on them. When you forget facts like this, do not blame us when we think you are part of the problem or even worse than the original problem. And if you wonder why there are not so many Muslims in your Western feminist circles, it's because they have found a better form of liberation elsewhere. Please show respect.' -Anon

So are they saying that we should not help fight the rape and genital mutalation that happens to some of these women, with the power we have?

There you have a very clear example of "We know what is best for you" in the vanity variant with some power freak sprinkled in, and also with an imperialistic agenda.