I think I just Liber Boomeranged in my pants

[LadybirdJohnson]

I am re-reading Liber Kaos... I haven't read it since college and that was when it was called The Phyconomicon... and had all the Math.

Anyway

It has reminded me painfully of that Oh So simple truth of Liber Boomerang.  In it has been a while for you it is the effect of creating whatever you struggle against.
"deny aggression to find the bloody knife shaking in your hand."

So with that in mind: I simply can't let go of how much I hate a particular person, Because I have been er Ashamed of how much I didn't like them in the first place (that is a fucked up little place to be by the way.)... that struggle has in turn caused me to Violently loath them more then I have ever loathed anyone in my life, (which is both Annoying and Highly educational).  I have created a Mega-Demon of hatred.  And the only way to escape it is to express it.

Which is why while passing his jeep this evening I paused to spit a giant loogy onto his window.

I am not proud.

But I do feel better.    Just thinking of him scraping my frozen lung snot off of his passenger side door the entire time thinking... Who the fuck spat on my car!  Having held in my hate like a fart he would never expect me.  This is by the way the most ridiculously stupid childish thing that I have done in a long time.  (See how repressed I am!  How did I let this happen! )

And... the best part is for the first time in MONTHS I can think about this guy without feeling intense anger.

So I am working on other things to take full advantage of this method of Sleight of mind...

I was wondering if anyone else has played with it, and if so what was the "goal"... what was your result?

I have also been thinking about thinking of myself as a conglomeration of beings... which is different from Buddhism where you spend most of your time thinking of yourself as an illusion (no not illusion... but you know the theory)... I used to look in the mirror and think, MY GOD!! I AM!  It is frightening to suddenly realize that you are a SINGLE flesh and blood person, I would rather be everything and everyone present in the room.  Of course that is just an illusion too.  Flesh and blood person, sure Single ha ya not ever.

So has anyone else frightened themselves by looking in the mirror and remembering what they are supposed to think of themselves as... or am I nutty?  Or look in the mirror and remember that you exist.  oh that is a eye opener.

Well... I read the Noobs please read post.   So tell me what a stupid fuck hole i am. I know you arn't impressed i know i just waisted your time, i know i have huge and distracting boobs that you can't see but you KNOW are there pressed up against...  err

What I mean to say is...

I mean Let the Hazing begin!

My Masochistic personality is rising to the surface as I type excitedly awaiting you verbal abuse!

[LadybirdJohnson]

 

I posted that in the wrong place.

I am SUCH a noob.

[Cain]

Where would you like it posted?  BIP?

I'll get back to you on content after another coffee or so.

[Messier Undertree]

Have you ever gone by the name Pyritu?

I think I might know you.

[Cain]

4 hours later, and I have still not had that coffee.  Or breakfast.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

4 hours later, and I have still not had that coffee.  Or breakfast.

[AFK]

Man, I wish that had been my breakfast.

[Cain]

Too late, I had marcaroni and worcestshire sauce for breakfast.

Anyway, I'm not sure what tack to take on this.  This sounds like an excellent BIP-esque topic with lots of possible avenues of discussion, but I suppose my failing is that I'm not exactly sure what method you are talking about?  I haven't read Liber Kaos, and if I had to guess, I would assume you meant the general building up of loathing and dislike before the one symbolic act which lets it all out.  But I'm not certain, so I would like some clarification.

[LMNO]

I mean Let the Hazing begin!

My Masochistic personality is rising to the surface as I type excitedly awaiting you verbal abuse!

You gotta wait another 47 posts...


I like where you're going with the piece, though.  Repressed vs expressed emotion? 

[LadybirdJohnson]

 Apple talk would be fine!
47 posts before a good hazing.

I am DISAPPOINTED!

Yes Repressed Vs Expressed Emtion... but where i am really going is far far deeper then that, atleast i think so.
Or atleast i think it could be when drawn to the finel conculsion.

See throwing all of your monney away with the intent of being broke only to be constantly under seige by large gifts of cash.  Of course the Monney goddess is trickier then that and you would have to get over all of your hang ups and truely desire to be broke.

Let me Quote the book... Since i was basicaly asked too.

SLEIGHT OF MIND IN DEMONOLOGY A surprise addition. "Liber Boomerang"
A god ignored is a demon born.
Think you to hypertrophy some selves at the expense of others?
That which is denied gains power, and seeks strange and unexpected forms of manifestation.
Deny Death and other forms of Suicide will arise.
Deny Sex and bizzarre forms of its expression will torment you.
Deny Love and absurd sentimentalities will disable you.
Deny Aggression only to stare eventually at the bloody Knife in your shaking hand.
Deny honest Fear and Desire only to create senseless neuroticism and avarice.
Deny Laughter and the world laughs at you.
Deny Magic only to become a confused robot, inexplicable even unto yourself.

So with that said, and knowing that a demon is only a god acting out of turn: I had manifested this Mega-hate by trying to deny it in the first place.

What if I Attempt to deny love for the same person?  While expressing my loathing and thereby disgorging the demon I created... Would I fall madly in love with him?

In a more complex and more interesting serenio...

Let's say I have a fear of being alone.  I do.  Like a good soldier I repress most of my weaknesses.
So my fear of being alone is a mega-demon in it's own right.

Can I Liber Boomerang this?

How... First Express the fear and disgorge the demon...
Second, intentionally deny any desire I have to be alone?

Fear Rejection?
Fear Poverty?
Repressing the nagging desire to kill your self?

Repressing the nagging desire to kill your self is another of my favorite hang ups.  Completely out of the blue my mind will say, "OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!"

"Shut UP you moron I am watching TV."

So Now I have Denied that.
Which is why it wont go away!
So how do you express a suicidal erge without, well causing permanent damage.

That would be some serious sleight of mind.

Pyritru... No I make a rule never to name a self something that the other selves can't pronounce... it makes them unhappy.  And then they tease the self with the funny name.

I am:
carmen
ishondra
julia
rose
lady
terretiz
maggotshield
and many others.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Ladybird,

I think you're on the right track if you're using the Liber Kaos model that way. If we consider Gods as aspects of the experience of Being Human (or aspects of the human personality or whatever), and demons as those aspects when they're out of whack... then yeah, you're on the right motorcycle.

<i>I had manifested this Mega-hate by trying to deny it in the first place.</i>

In a CM model yes... in a psychology model, you didn't deal with your emotions and thus you got some psychological baggage.

However, don't confuse the normal human experience of weirdness ("OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!") with repressing the emotions required to deal with something. Ideas and Demons are two different things. That being said, I have a friend that was very depressed... however, h'd done a great job repressing the issues. He began to experience what he called blackouts, where he would suddenly realize that he had somehow placed himself in a dangerous position, once he "came to" with a razor blade at his wrist, once with a noose around his neck. Obviously, it seems highly likely that he consciously put himself in those positions, but became rational before execution. Weather he lied about not realizing it, or if his brain blocked out the process that put him in those positions, I can't say. However, the 'idea' had become a demon for him. a demon that was only beaten when he dealt with the multitude of issues that had caused his depression... and as part of that he included a series of 'boomerang' rituals once he was well on the road to recovery as a form of 'banishing the demon'...

However, don't confuse what Peter is saying, with what Peter means. Liber kaos (like Liber Null, Psychonaut etc) is full of metaphor. Denying the normal human experience appears to lead to abnormal behavior in humans. (For example, look at the 'moralists' who denied the rights of gays, only to end up in compromising positions themselves.)

Expressing the demon, doesn't always mean that we must act on what the demon wants... rather we may have a symbolic act that is metaphoric of the issue (ritual). We can kill ourselves symbolicly in ritual, and if the ritual is done correctly, it will have some impact on our psychology and thus our Demon in question. Even though the ritual is 'safe' and not really risky in a physical sense... we can Face our Demons (admit that we fear poverty, death, etc) and exorcise them(come to terms with the issue and resolve it). Facing our demons in ritual, where we havesymbols and metaphors to hang on to (circle, LBRP etc), can save us the problem of being 'attacked by demons' in our regular life.

I think.

[LadybirdJohnson]

Yes.

However:
Perceived Life is at best only metaphor.
Normal life experience is to deny normal human experience.  Hehe

Yes Symbolic ritual is key.

No of course it isn't.  The problem I find is the ritual has to really stimulate that demon, it can't be too abstract or it wont work.  Or it doesn't work for me.  But with any sleight of mind if you perform the ritual while thinking of that goal you have already failed.  

Anyway this:
("OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!")

Isn't a thought that occurs out of any desire for suicide at all... instead it is more like a part of my self that is deeply cynical and likes to tease the other aspects of myself with these silly commands.

Or am I simply denying my true desire even now?

It seems wrong to me to be deeply conflicted about weather or not you want to do something of this nature, but at the same time how else could you possibly be.

If a person never long for death even in a philosophical sense then wouldn't they be overcome with fear of mortality... if a person never desired to live then they would ... hehe be dead.

SO I am probably right where I want to be, on the teetertaughter.

But in the case of your friend who seems to have lost control of that balance... he would have to come up with a really good ritual.

I think mine would involve a bungi cord.

How about you?

On a side note.

"you didn't deal with your emotions"

Haha that is the problem in the first place!  The Crazed idea that (Bad) emotions are things that have to be dealt with. 

On a Side side side note
Any of you ever hear of a cult, "Foundation school" or something like that... What do you think of it if you have.  I think they have some pretty neat ritual...but wholly crap it's expensive.

So far it seems to be over priced watered down Zen with a Kick of discord... which is a nice combo but I can get it for free.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Yes Symbolic ritual is key.

No of course it isn't.  The problem I find is the ritual has to really stimulate that demon, it can't be too abstract or it wont work.  Or it doesn't work for me.  But with any sleight of mind if you perform the ritual while thinking of that goal you have already failed.  

I thought that as well after reading Pete's stuff... however, I've taken a couple online classes that he's taught and I know have a slightly different view (besides, Pete's said a number of times that large parts of most of his books could be better/rewritten to reflect what he's come to think since then). The Magic formula that Pete uses relies on G and L (Gnosis and the Magical Link), "slight of mind" might be considered process that happens when you apply those two functions. While "forgetting" can work (as with his examples onf Sigil Magic), ritual and symbolism can work as well. If you make a complex ritual, it becomes easy (for some people) to focus on the minutia of the ritual (G), rather than the goal (M). If you build good symbols (L) into the ritual that also helps. If you can get into the roleplaying/method acting... "Casting out the Demon" ritual becomes slight of mind for fixing a particular aspect of your personality/psychology that you don't like... the entire "Magic" system can be seen as slight of mind in some sense.

Anyway this:
("OH oH Lets stab ourselves in the throat and jump out the window!!")

Isn't a thought that occurs out of any desire for suicide at all... instead it is more like a part of my self that is deeply cynical and likes to tease the other aspects of myself with these silly commands.

Or am I simply denying my true desire even now?

It seems wrong to me to be deeply conflicted about weather or not you want to do something of this nature, but at the same time how else could you possibly be.

If a person never long for death even in a philosophical sense then wouldn't they be overcome with fear of mortality... if a person never desired to live then they would ... hehe be dead.

SO I am probably right where I want to be, on the teetertaughter.

But in the case of your friend who seems to have lost control of that balance... he would have to come up with a really good ritual.

I think mine would involve a bungi cord.

How about you?

I was taking classes from Pete (as was my friend) when his issues were going on... I asked Pete about a ritual and his response was one that I think all "magicians" should keep in mind: "Never give a sword, to a man who can't dance. Never give a wand to a man who can't deal with reality." Magic is really useful in effecting changes to your own perception and psychology... but you have to be on a pretty even keel to begin with. The ritual wasn't the cure for my friend... it seemed more like closure. The majority of help came from qualified therapists and doctors. Once they got him back to a functioning level of sanity (or whatever we humans consider sanity), then he was able to purge the fears he had (that he may not come to his sneses until it was too late, that he would always risk finding himself in that state etc). Since then he's also created an "egrigore" to "keep an eye on him", and hopefully "snap him back" if he ever goes that direction again (quotes to infer metaphor).

I think physical risk (bunjee jumping etc) might be a very good piece of ritual to face death. The death ritual that Pete discusses in one of his books (Psychonaut?) may also work. Bunjee jumping would probably be fantastic as Slight of Mind/Gnosis.

On a side note.

"you didn't deal with your emotions"

Haha that is the problem in the first place!  The Crazed idea that (Bad) emotions are things that have to be dealt with. 

I'm not sure what you mean here.

[LMNO]

tl:dr.


and, 45.

[LadybirdJohnson]

44
Hm...

Well I am a fucked up little cookie myself.

::Magic is really useful in effecting changes to your own perception and psychology... but you have to be on a pretty even keel to begin with.::

"Have to be"
As in for it to work or for it to be safe?

My main purpose for using CM is to alter my psychology.  I am not terribly attached to the current version of myself and would like to try a new one. 

That isn't to say that Doctors and therapy and medication don't have a place... Eris knows I have seen my share.

But ultimately if you can change yourself you can change your universe... seems only right to start at the source.

By saying that the idea of "Dealing" with bad emotions is crazed...

I meant that most people would be happier if they only realized that it is perfectly ok to not be happy all the time.  That and didn't we just decide that deciding that a emotion was "Bad" and then Repressing it was a bad thing?