Recruiting the unrecruited

[LMNO]

So, I was thinking about what kind of person I was when I heard about the PD, and the kind of person I was now.

The person I was then was idealistic, optimistic, and always looking for a buzz or a good laugh.

The person I am now is more jaded, more "realpolitik", optimistic but cautious, borderline alcoholic with a gallows humor. 

The former seems to be the kind of person ripe for recruiting.  So, how do we present ourselves in order to appeal to these people?  Maybe the idea is to lure the ground troops in with Lulz, and then slowly reveal to them the Hideous Truths.

That is to say, we start by getting them laughing, and only over time show them the laughter that sounds like screaming.

So, how to do that without resorting to Pinealism?

[Cainad (dec.)]

If the Pinealism is genuinely funny, then there's nothing wrong with it. Anything that makes people laugh, only to realize that there are people out there who want them to stop laughing at that sort of thing, is fair game.

So we need a Shits 'n' Giggles companion to the BIP. Will there be lots of stupids mucking about? Yes, but please, suffer the little children. At least a few of them won't get eaten and will survive to adulthood. If I had come straight here and had not had my fun lolling about with the fnords, Sacred Chaos, etc, I would have been all like "What is this crap?" and left.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So, I was thinking about what kind of person I was when I heard about the PD, and the kind of person I was now.

The person I was then was idealistic, optimistic, and always looking for a buzz or a good laugh.

The person I am now is more jaded, more "realpolitik", optimistic but cautious, borderline alcoholic with a gallows humor. 

The former seems to be the kind of person ripe for recruiting.  So, how do we present ourselves in order to appeal to these people?  Maybe the idea is to lure the ground troops in with Lulz, and then slowly reveal to them the Hideous Truths.

That is to say, we start by getting them laughing, and only over time show them the laughter that sounds like screaming.

So, how to do that without resorting to Pinealism?

The Map is Not The Territory. The map, is just a map... a Pinealist map is a map, just the same as a BiPer map is, or a Dada or absurdist map etc etc etc. The trick is in being able to use any map that will help you with an aspect of the territory.  If you want to recruit people that use Map X, chances are you'll recruit better if you make use of Map X.

"I am no maps slave, but I have made myself an explorer of  all maps, in order to win the more for
Chaos. To the Pinealist I have made myself as a Pinealist, in order to win Pinealists; to those who live
in the CotSG I have come as one under Bob, in order to win those who are with Bob —
not that I myself am necessarily with Bob. To those who live without the Law of Fives I have come
as one without the law, in order to win those who are without the law — not that I am
free of the Law of fives, for it still shows up quite often and occasionally as a 23. To those who
are dadaist I have made myself dadaist, so as to win the dadaist; in fact, I have become all things
to all people, in order that, one way or another, I may have some of them over to play. But I do it all
for the sake of the LOL, so that I may share the LULZ with others"

A slight variation on the words once spoken by one of the worlds most successful recruiters.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am not sure how I feel about all this recruitment.

[LMNO]

Shut up and get in line, citizen.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Shut up and get in line, citizen.

Damn Straight...who said Nigel could have an opinion?!

[That One Guy]

I am not sure how I feel about all this recruitment.

Me, I'm almost rabidly anti-recruiting, or evangelizing, or anything similar. While I certainly have no ill will to anyone that DOES do such things, I won't be doing it. If someone finds the PD on their own, or stumbles across something that makes them take an interest, then sweet! However, I refuse to attempt to convince anyone that I have a WAY^tm that is something that will work for them.

How can "think for yourself, schmuck!" possibly be rationalized with the "you should think like THIS" or the "since you're interested in THIS, then here's all of OUR language and terms that you should use when you talk about THIS" that ANY recruitment/evangelism is inherrently preaching? I was raised with the "think for yourself" imprint, and that basic assumption has never seemed to mesh with ANY creed/ethos/dogma that I've run across or been "shown" by well-meaning (or not - little practical difference IMO) people that have tried to convert me to their ideology or theology, whatever it might be.

I ran across all this PD shit on my own, I raped it for everything I thought worked, ditched the shit I thought was a waste, combined it with all sorts of other theological bits and pieces that I made similar personal judgements about, and never looked back. It's worked pretty damn well for me over the years, and I always hope that other people do the same with their theologies. To me, a big part of that is to give everyone ALL the possibilities (everyone IMO should read the Bible, the Koran, the Baghavad Gita, the Tibetan book of the Dead, etc. etc. and then see what works for THEM personally, without anyone telling them what they SHOULD be thinking) and then let the "think for yourself, schmuck!" principle work its magic. If nothing else, it makes religion a much more varied, interesting beast.

But that's just me 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I am not sure how I feel about all this recruitment.

Me, I'm almost rabidly anti-recruiting, or evangelizing, or anything similar. While I certainly have no ill will to anyone that DOES do such things, I won't be doing it. If someone finds the PD on their own, or stumbles across something that makes them take an interest, then sweet! However, I refuse to attempt to convince anyone that I have a WAY^tm that is something that will work for them.

How can "think for yourself, schmuck!" possibly be rationalized with the "you should think like THIS" or the "since you're interested in THIS, then here's all of OUR language and terms that you should use when you talk about THIS" that ANY recruitment/evangelism is inherrently preaching? I was raised with the "think for yourself" imprint, and that basic assumption has never seemed to mesh with ANY creed/ethos/dogma that I've run across or been "shown" by well-meaning (or not - little practical difference IMO) people that have tried to convert me to their ideology or theology, whatever it might be.

I ran across all this PD shit on my own, I raped it for everything I thought worked, ditched the shit I thought was a waste, combined it with all sorts of other theological bits and pieces that I made similar personal judgements about, and never looked back. It's worked pretty damn well for me over the years, and I always hope that other people do the same with their theologies. To me, a big part of that is to give everyone ALL the possibilities (everyone IMO should read the Bible, the Koran, the Baghavad Gita, the Tibetan book of the Dead, etc. etc. and then see what works for THEM personally, without anyone telling them what they SHOULD be thinking) and then let the "think for yourself, schmuck!" principle work its magic. If nothing else, it makes religion a much more varied, interesting beast.

But that's just me 

I agree with everything you said here... though I would point out that 'recruitment' in this sense, isn't so much about recruiting from the Norms/Pinks/Thuddites or converting other Discordians to a specific interpretation... rather its recruiting existing Discordians (and potentials) for active projects(O:MF etc). For that sort of thing, I find recruitment a useful tool.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What about calling it "Let's Get Some More People To Come Here, Because That Would Be Fun"?

It just sounds less militaristic.

Also, I like to lend my friends copies of the PD, if I think they would think it was funny.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

What about calling it "Let's Get Some More People To Come Here, Because That Would Be Fun"?

It just sounds less militaristic.

Also, I like to lend my friends copies of the PD, if I think they would think it was funny.

Because doing anything with Discordians often requires good marketing "Come hang out at PD.com" gets small response; "Come assist Eris' Children in the rebirth of the Erisian Liberation Front" gets moar.

Advertise, Advertise, Advertise (like from the other thread)

[That One Guy]

You're still actively attempting to influence other people that your vision/ideals/goals/whatever are more worthy than theirs, and that their actions should be focused to what YOU want to accomplish, no matter what the intention might be.

Also, I detest advertising. Telling people what you think they should do when they otherwise wouldn't do it is something that (while in many, many ways a necessary evil) I just can't support. I can't watch TV because of the ads (it's one of the main reasons I'm a big fan of HBO's shows - no ads breaking up the flow of the story), and I probably will never make any money as a musician because I refuse to "sell" my music or my musical skills (even suckering people into coming to shows feels wrong to me - I'm lucky enough to have a singer who does promotion professionally)..

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to avoid doing ANY advertising in one form or another, but I do what I can on my own while advertising as little as I possibly can.

But that's just me. I know very few people share this attitude, and in all honesty that's probably a good thing. However, it's an attitude that's at the core of who I am, so I doubt I'll be changing any time soon.

However, that's not to say anyone else shouldn't recruit/advertise. Go nuts! I, however, will not be participating in such things. If I can help further the collective goals in a way that interests me I probably will, but I would rather not do so as part of any (however informal) organization or recruitment.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You're still actively attempting to influence other people that your vision/ideals/goals/whatever are more worthy than theirs, and that their actions should be focused to what YOU want to accomplish, no matter what the intention might be.

Also, I detest advertising. Telling people what you think they should do when they otherwise wouldn't do it is something that (while in many, many ways a necessary evil) I just can't support. I can't watch TV because of the ads (it's one of the main reasons I'm a big fan of HBO's shows - no ads breaking up the flow of the story), and I probably will never make any money as a musician because I refuse to "sell" my music or my musical skills (even suckering people into coming to shows feels wrong to me - I'm lucky enough to have a singer who does promotion professionally)..

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to avoid doing ANY advertising in one form or another, but I do what I can on my own while advertising as little as I possibly can.

But that's just me. I know very few people share this attitude, and in all honesty that's probably a good thing. However, it's an attitude that's at the core of who I am, so I doubt I'll be changing any time soon.

However, that's not to say anyone else shouldn't recruit/advertise. Go nuts! I, however, will not be participating in such things. If I can help further the collective goals in a way that interests me I probably will, but I would rather not do so as part of any (however informal) organization or recruitment.

See, I consider it more like an invite to a huge LARP. We have a game, we need people for the game so we advertise, we make it sound exciting, fun, inviting... then people show up.

At the end of the day, I only have so much pity for people that "fall prey" to advertising, recruiting, etc.  If people can't think for themselves, they might as well let me stick random stuff in their heads.... probably less dangerous than what their preacher, sales representative or politician would do given half a chance.

[Darth Cupcake]

I am currently fluctuating between TOG and Rat. Both of you make really good points and I agree with both of you to an extent.

I guess I like to put the stuff I'm into out there to be found--I'm such a huge fan of the One Sentence Memebomb stickers Cram got me started on (TOG, if you're ever around the CAS business office and grad school area, keep yr eyes peeled in the stair wells! ) because they make a point, stir up thought... but, for the most part, avoid being preachy or overly aggressive. Without Cram's meddling in my life, I never would've found my way to the PD, but when I did, I was utterly delighted. I think where we want to be is in a position of unlocking a door and pointing out that it's there--"Hey guys, here's this thing you can check out"--and then letting people decided whether or not they want to peer around the frame, stick a head in, or just go ahead and go in all the way (and then whether or not they want to turn around and leave afterwards). Because there's nothing wrong with offering.

I get the feeling that that's the general direction a lot of this was already headed, though.

[GlompChomp]

I came across PD thanks to one of those 23FNORDPinealGland people. I wasn't recruited, but if I were, I wouldn't lose my lucidity the instant someone shoved an advert in front of my eyes. People concerned with recruiting being "wrong" should take into account that a person can still think for themselves and decide to check out what all the fuss about PD is. Except in the most impressionable of people, recruiting does nothing to remove someones ability to think for themselves. They can decide "Nah, this is a waste of my time, I'll try something else". Besides, if PD doesn't get them, someone else will.

Shameless n00b advice.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

See, I consider it more like an invite to a huge LARP. We have a game, we need people for the game so we advertise, we make it sound exciting, fun, inviting... then people show up.

At the end of the day, I only have so much pity for people that "fall prey" to advertising, recruiting, etc.  If people can't think for themselves, they might as well let me stick random stuff in their heads.... probably less dangerous than what their preacher, sales representative or politician would do given half a chance.

I can run with that angle.