Time to release the hostage?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Uh, you didn't need the scrolling banner at the top. I'm well aware of those phrases and what they mean (to me at least)

I didn't figure you needed it, but I liked putting it there.

I agree with you to a large extent. I wouldn't say that the BIP is stagnant, only that it is relatively static as an idea.

It's a model... models are usually static. That's how they model things. The idea, surely isn't static though, is it? Several of us had a large discussion somewhere recently on just what the BiP 'was' or at least what it was intended to model. If people read the BiP Pamphlet, then the memes will hopefully mix with stuff in their head and continue to grow (just like with the PD).

Maybe an exploration as to why various evolutions of the ideas and concepts in the PD aren't as popular, even though they MAY be more relevent is kind of the tack I'm on.

Well, I think that depends on the audience, every author I mentioned has had a number of published books, they run workshops and pretty much earn a decent living on those models, so they must be popular with sombunal people. They don't seem as popular here (at least among some people), but I don't know how many of the denizens of PD.com have read any of those expansions of models...

The thing is, models appeal to different people. The BiP doesn't much appeal to me personally, I think because it has such a pessimistic feel to it (IMO). Being born makes you a prisoner, the only way out is death... that's just not as useful to me as the reality tunnel metaphor, which doesn't trap you anywhere, it just says "you have limited perception" without making that a Bad Thing. Prison, usually (at least in my mind) seems like a bad thing. In all honesty, because I have a Christian background, I think the BiP sorta reminds me of the whole "born into sin and you can't escape except through death" sort of thing.

See: The transcript I'l post later today.

Sounds very interesting

[LMNO]

1. I agree with models being static.
2. I agree that BIP came in a big rush, with the inevitable ebb
3. I still feel there's something big behind "shrapnel", but I still haven't gittem my mind around it yet.
4. I (personally) moved from BIP to Monkey Mind, linking the two (monkey mind being almost wearing a straightjacket in your cell), and have been playing around with that for a while.
5. The concept of who the Jailor is (self) is also fun to play with.
6. In time, another idea that resonates with the board will arrive because one good thing about PD.com is that it is always looking for the Next Thing.
7. I think the biggest cause of the knee jerk to the Old Skool PD (OSPD) is not that it's no good an no-one ever did anything else with it, it's that the Pinealists act that way.
8. This is a request for more information and links on Paratheatrics, please!

[Verbal Mike]

Okay, I'm back but my parable thing needs more work before it's readable and my mind is too mushy for editing right now, so I'll just write out the basic idea:
We are all stuck in a gooey, sticky substance. For as long as we can remembers, this goo has been all we know. It's too sticky for us to ever get out. Even if we manage to get out of it, some of it will stick to us and will never leave us. To some of us it seems the goo is pure and sweet. To some it seems the goo is rancid and ugly. To some it seems the goo is actually a kind of prison, designed to keep us in for ever. To others it seems like a random mess with no rhyme or reason. But what if this goo is some kind of amoeba? An organic organism, not quite sentient but certainly alive, with all the complex chemistry of a living being. The amoebic goo surrounds each of us with our own personal cocoon, tailor-made to fit us. So some of us surround ourselves with rancid, painful goo, and hate every moment of it. But once you realize the goo you live in is the goo you choose to live in, you can start to hack it.
Or here's another thought: maybe your cocoon is made of your own feces. Eat well and your cocoon will be a healthy, snuggly place. Eat junk and you'll be swimming in diarrhea.

The metaphor needs some refinement, and like I said my mind is too mushy right now. It does seem to be a bit of an awkward redressing of the BiP metaphor, but I'm thinking it might be a more useful model than BiP, to realize the prison is itself an organic being, with complicated chemistry that reacts to our choices.

[/laem]

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Okay, I'm back but my parable thing needs more work before it's readable and my mind is too mushy for editing right now, so I'll just write out the basic idea:
We are all stuck in a gooey, sticky substance. For as long as we can remembers, this goo has been all we know. It's too sticky for us to ever get out. Even if we manage to get out of it, some of it will stick to us and will never leave us. To some of us it seems the goo is pure and sweet. To some it seems the goo is rancid and ugly. To some it seems the goo is actually a kind of prison, designed to keep us in for ever. To others it seems like a random mess with no rhyme or reason. But what if this goo is some kind of amoeba? An organic organism, not quite sentient but certainly alive, with all the complex chemistry of a living being. The amoebic goo surrounds each of us with our own personal cocoon, tailor-made to fit us. So some of us surround ourselves with rancid, painful goo, and hate every moment of it. But once you realize the goo you live in is the goo you choose to live in, you can start to hack it.
Or here's another thought: maybe your cocoon is made of your own feces. Eat well and your cocoon will be a healthy, snuggly place. Eat junk and you'll be swimming in diarrhea.

The metaphor needs some refinement, and like I said my mind is too mushy right now. It does seem to be a bit of an awkward redressing of the BiP metaphor, but I'm thinking it might be a more useful model than BiP, to realize the prison is itself an organic being, with complicated chemistry that reacts to our choices.

[/laem]

Oh I like where that might be going

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

8. This is a request for more information and links on Paratheatrics, please!

Paratheatrics, in some sense, can be described as a distillation of religious/spiritual/magical practices, with as much of the supernatural metaphor as possible stripped away. Rather than invoking a godform, the practitioner might invoke the second circuit of an individual in a particular state (the video Orphans of Delirium http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bufz9hw7znw shows an example of one such ritual/performance).  Antero's book "Towards An Archeology of The Soul" is an in-depth Paratheatrics book, personally I'm torn on the system. On one hand, I think its a little silly, but have experienced altered states playing with the system. On the other hand, I have a friend who has been a performance artist for some time and they system was seemingly perfect for him. He was going through a rough divorce etc. and the system was very useful for him to dig out of the emotional hell he was in. The results might have been the same with Leary's model or Crowley's magick... but since he holds no belief in magick and thinks Leary was a acid headed hippie... this model seems to be useful for him where the others were not.

On the third hand, I liked "Angel Tech" more than "Archeology of the Soul"... but they're two very different models/metaphors/whatthefuckevers from the same guy based on the seeds in the Principia.

[LMNO]

Oh... I'm slightly disappointed.

I was thinking they would be more of how to trigger curcuit responses on a  large scale (performances, and such).

I remmeber this band back in the 90s... sort of an american Neubauten from SF.  Their performances were more like Dionysian rituals.   It was awesome.  And dangerous.  And fun.

[edit:  They were called Crash Worship. www.crashworship.net/]

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Oh... I'm slightly disappointed.

I was thinking they would be more of how to trigger curcuit responses on a  large scale (performances, and such).

I remmeber this band back in the 90s... sort of an american Neubauten from SF.  Their performances were more like Dionysian rituals.   It was awesome.  And dangerous.  And fun.

[edit:  They were called Crash Worship. www.crashworship.net/]

Well, there is a consideration for the potential effect on the audience, but Antero seems to think that internalization and action are necessary for major shifts. However, just as a whole coven is affected by being present at a ritual, or a parishioner experiencing a revival, the audiences do seem to have circuits triggered at points. The main focus is personal, but some of the more advanced stuff is aimed at engaging specific circuits in the audience (the end of Archeology of the Soul discusses that some).

Mostly, it made me LOL a lot. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Wanna know what the real deal is with the BIP?

There's nothing outside

[LMNO]

The final scene of Dark City, ITT.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Wanna know what the real deal is with the BIP?

There's nothing outside

That should be on the first page of the Lollercaust.