Some thoughts from #Discord

[LMNO]

1.  I wonder if MLA has put a certain profit margin amount as the indicators between "counterculture" "underground trend," "fad," and "commercial."

2.  If I recall, the "original" point behind O:M is to remind people how bizarre reality truly is.  With that in mind as an end goal, I figure that would imply you can prank for Lulz, social change, to be an asshole, or any other reason you desire, so long as your targets get freaked out/confused.

3.  New posters are new.  Old posters are old.  New posters become old by sticking around.  I really don't see the problem here.

4.  MLA is sounding more and more like an ossified institution of looking at revolution through the rear-view mirror.

5. NO FIFTH POST!  ZOMGPINEAL!

[hooplala]

4.  MLA is sounding more and more like an ossified institution of looking at revolution through the rear-view mirror.

[Triple Zero]

2.  If I recall, the "original" point behind O:M is to remind people how bizarre reality truly is.  With that in mind as an end goal, I figure that would imply you can prank for Lulz, social change, to be an asshole, or any other reason you desire, so long as your targets get freaked out/confused.

and if they don't, it's hardly a "prank", is it?

[hooplala]

um i think you misunderstand what i mean.

i don't like to forcibly keep up with "what's new" either, but i think it's good to have some idea of "what's going on", especially if you want to change things.

this is why i quit TV a couple of years ago (i didnt keep count, i think it's about 6 or 7 years now, must have been 6, cause i remember watching the 9/11 show)

>  I tend to ignore things for a while, probably a bit out of neophobia, and probably a bit out of
> laziness . . . but mostly because I know if something is truly worthwhile it will force its way into my life
> eventually.

that's pretty much the way i do it, except for that i keep myself "open" to these new things on purpose. i don't make an effort on keeping track of it, but when something "new" happens to come my way i don't ignore it on purpose, and do actively take an interest if it's interesting to me. i learned that much from getting my mobile phone, which i was putting off for a long time as well (but not as long as you, i have the thing for over 7 years now), thinking i didn't need it, which is just not true. you can do without it, but you can do without a lot of things, it's just a tremendously useful device. just like a computer and the internet.

> To be quite honest, I get very bored with the 'is this being done right?' mindset. 

are you saying my post was displaying this mindset? if so, how? and why are you bored with that?

> I do what I do, and don't really give a shit what any of the rest of you are doing.

that's so counterculture of you ..  why are you posting and reading a forum if you don't give a shit about what we're doing?

i realized a long time ago that i can't do a lot of things just on my own. no matter the perfectionist i am deep inside, i dont know what i'd do without a littlebit of help from my friends. also, in return, latching on to whatever they're doing and helping out where i can, lets me be part of Big Things and accomplish Cool Stuff. "giving a shit what people are doing" sort of facilitates this process.
and in the case of discordianism/O:MF, this is why i googled "discordian forum" a couple of years ago in the first place. because i was very curious about what the "other" discordians were doing.

now i can understand if you don't want to play that same game, it's your choice afterall. but saying "i dont care and i do my own thing" like that is a bit negative towards the groups here that do want to accomplish something together. you don't need to be part of that, but you don't need to go around stating that it bothers you, bores you and that you don't give a shit. especially not if you truly don't give a shit.

i just meant to say, that the people at MLA certainly got some merit and that if they would take a serious look at what the big internet culture is doing, something very beautiful might emerge from that. perhaps comparable to how you are wary of the mobile phone at first, but will grow to see it's usefulness more and more as time progresses.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, Trip.

[Cain]

It sometimes bothers me though that people seem to think it is necessary for me to 'keep up' with whatever is new, when a lot of shit falls by the wayside within a year or so.  I tend to ignore things for a while, probably a bit out of neophobia, and probably a bit out of laziness . . . but mostly because I know if something is truly worthwhile it will force its way into my life eventually.  I only got a cellphone for the first time this past August.

Its not necessary, its just very useful.

I don't put stock in everyone "they" say I should like, but I do like some of them.  RAW got me into Joyce, for example . . . I don't know if I would have really bothered otherwise, but he made it seem like a riddle, rather than 'my duty'.  I like Leary's 8-Circuit model, and some of his research, but otherwise, no I'm not that interested wither.

I dont believe anyone said you couldn't like some of them.  If someone here were to try and do that, it would be no better than what I am describing.

To be quite honest, I get very bored with the 'is this being done right?' mindset.  I do what I do, and don't really give a shit what any of the rest of you are doing.

Who is this referring to you?  Because put in context it looks like you are saying it to me, whereas by itself, it could very well be directed at much of the so-called counterculture, who are more interested in "is this in line with what [guru] said" or "is this cool and underground enough" instead of "does this lead to results, or at least yield interesting avenues worth exploring"?

[hooplala]

To be quite honest, I get very bored with the 'is this being done right?' mindset.  I do what I do, and don't really give a shit what any of the rest of you are doing.

Who is this referring to you?  Because put in context it looks like you are saying it to me, whereas by itself, it could very well be directed at much of the so-called counterculture, who are more interested in "is this in line with what [guru] said" or "is this cool and underground enough" instead of "does this lead to results, or at least yield interesting avenues worth exploring"?

No no, sorry - that was not directd at you either.  What a roll I'm on.  I shouldn't post right after waking up.  I'm slower than usual.

The 'you' was the so-called counterculture. Sorry if it came across as combatitive, not my intention.



The rest of your points are excellent, and I won't attempt to refute them, I was just stating what I feel about some of those issues.

[Cain]

Oh, OK.  It just didn't come across very clearly thats all.  Thanks for the clarification.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

ha cool you asked about that? was it because of the questions i posted in cram's thread about the interview?

because that really stood out for me, the way he, also in the interview itself, completely sidestepped the money issues, and travelling all over the world.

i sort of got the idea that possibly he inherited or somehow gained such a large amount of money that he simply doesn't need to work anymore, and does the journalist/media researcher bit to keep himself busy. still, i'd rather have somebody with that kind of money to spend his time and resources on pranks than what the average jet-set does with it, of course.

but right, what a cop-out.

Yes, you bringing that up definitely spurred me to ask... it had occurred to me, as well, and when you mentioned it I went "bingo, I'm not the only one wondering, I'm gonna bite the bullet and ask". The problem I have with his particular sidestep is that he took the tone of "Well, ya just gotta sacrifice for your art, kiddo" and it was such an OBVIOUS and condescending brush-off. It's been my experience that most people who earned everything they've accomplished the hard way will share exactly how they did it, but people who got kick-started with an inheritance or trust fund or Mummy and Daddy's money will usually go to lengths to avoid making that fact known.

is he saying that the sixties had more pranks than today?

He does seem to think that there was more active pranksterism in the 60's, but my opinion is simply that the pranks are better documented, because with the passage of time people have written about them. In 40 years today's pranks will be just as well-documented.

[Cain]

It could also be an information overload thing.  Lots of pranks are going on, and are documented all over the internet, but it would be a Herculean task to bring them all together.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

No, exactly. Basically, no books have been written that he can just have us buy off Amazon, or anything like that.

[hooplala]

I'll have to try the MLA forums out, it sounds like a bucket of hilarity.

Do you all use your PD names over there?

[Cain]

I'm not on the main forum, but my screen name on the class forum is Cain.

Cramulus is on the main one though, I believe he posted the Guardian article about Banksy there today.

[Triple Zero]

to Hoopla: okay no worries. i misunderstood your post then. it's still kinda vague, but it's okay :-P

Yes, you bringing that up definitely spurred me to ask... it had occurred to me, as well, and when you mentioned it I went "bingo, I'm not the only one wondering, I'm gonna bite the bullet and ask". The problem I have with his particular sidestep is that he took the tone of "Well, ya just gotta sacrifice for your art, kiddo" and it was such an OBVIOUS and condescending brush-off. It's been my experience that most people who earned everything they've accomplished the hard way will share exactly how they did it, but people who got kick-started with an inheritance or trust fund or Mummy and Daddy's money will usually go to lengths to avoid making that fact known.

can't really blame em though, but i might expect a better escape route from a prankster artist

anyway, you could have proceeded with a mock-up low-end estimate for the costs of a certain prank and then go "wow that's pretty cool you sacrificed $1000 for this prank, $1300 for that, and .. " .... but as i said, i dunno if it would be right to give him a hard time, if he's inherited that money, that happens, and it's cool he's investing it in pranks.

because how do you think he could have worded it, if he were to admit he's just filthy rich and can afford such stuff? that would surely throw off a lot of the course-takers, thinking they could never be a prankster like that.

is he saying that the sixties had more pranks than today?

He does seem to think that there was more active pranksterism in the 60's, but my opinion is simply that the pranks are better documented, because with the passage of time people have written about them. In 40 years today's pranks will be just as well-documented.

hm, i wonder, if you put together the archives of improveverything and some other epic prank sites, if the 60s was really better than that? although, no i haven't read the documentation. i think it's what Cain said--information overload.

[hooplala]

to Hoopla: okay no worries. i misunderstood your post then. it's still kinda vague, but it's okay :-P

It was, I admit. I had literally just woken up, and was waiting for the shower and popped online.  Note to self: don't do that, you don't make any sense.

When I said I don't care what you are all doing, I didn't mean it in a personal sense, I meant the world.  And of course, its hyperbole, I am chock FULL of hyperbole . . . I'm interested in what you are all doing, or I wouldn't be here, but I'm also not of the "bridge jumping off" mindset . . . and neither are most people here.

So, do I have a point?  In this thread, I'm not sure . . . I think it sounded like I was spouting off at people when I didn't mean to be.  I think its because I got guff from a friend last night for not putting enough interest into modern music, which pissed me off, and I equated that conversation with what was going on here.  So, I guess in a sense I WAS spouting off, but it shouldn't have been at you guys (which it really wasn't anyway, although I guess it was).

Ok, I'm rambling, I will stop.

[LHX]

the only thing that seems to keep making itself apparent is that anything of any consequence or satisfaction seems to come at the result of tremendous effort

im not talking about performing slave labor
but
im sayin that it may literally be impossible to do anything satisfying with half-ass effort because to a good degree - the joy is in the aim


relating back to the prank perspective

im sure that is one way to get something accomplished - but it cant be any type of lame ass prank that will result in anything of consequence


im sure there are a billion taoist and buddhist books that say the same thing
but
i do recollect at some point in hagakure where it said something along the lines of every direction being 'a Way'

in this regard
the way of the samurai
is just as legitimate as the way of the prankster



and every Way seems to consist of more effort than most people are willing to make


i have no idea whether what i just wrote is coherent or not

im rusty in the Way of the forum poster