Some thoughts from #Discord

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Great effort is certainly key to enjoying a sense of accomplishment, IMO
But is that what this is really about?

One of the things that makes inspiring figures inspiring is the sense that they are not all that different from you; that you can do what they've done. An inspiring story can go a long way toward empowering people. You hear the story of the risk, and the sacrifices, and you want to take risks, and make sacrifices.

Without the story, without the inspiration, all you have is hollow admonitions. That is why Trickster tales are effective; they SHOW you, they don't TELL you.

[LMNO]

the only thing that seems to keep making itself apparent is that anything of any consequence or satisfaction seems to come at the result of tremendous effort

the way of the samurai
is just as legitimate as the way of the prankster

and every Way seems to consist of more effort than most people are willing to make

Good to have you back, LHX.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think that we've made a terrible error with the term/label "counterculture". In the way its often used, one would think that the Goths, Discordians, Punks, Pranksters, Yes Men, Yippies, 'Artists', Musicians and Beatniks were a unified force striking out against the dominant culture. However, the more I reflect on it, the term seems fallacious. It appears to me that we're actually talking about many different subcultures, rather than counterculture.

This seems true for these big groups and even for our own Discordian Multiverse. The fact that multiple subcultures share some memes (like Eris or Discordian or the PD), doesn't mean that they're the same subculture or that they have the same goals (such as countering popular culture). Rather, it seems that we may have many subcultures, most of which appear to have some similar goals or affinities, but they also seem quite distinct as their own sort of subculture. When MLA was first kicking, RAW and the instructors were intentionally trying to bring different subcultures together. Classes were intended to be aimed at a particular subculture, while the main forum was intended to be a mix/mash up of many different (hopefully opposing) subcultures. That was the point of Model Agmnosticism, being agnostic toward the model used by any particular group, be it political, social or metaphysical. However, in the past year, it seems to have turned into a somewhat homogeneous subculture (RAWITES or whatever you want to label them as). Their subculture and the subculture that appears dominant here seem to have wildly different views of reality.  I think that's ok. I personally don't like the Happy Hippy Optimism that's being blown about over there now, but then I don't really post much over there. The same holds for people that come here for the first time. They may be from a different subculture, or a subculture thats similar only in the memes being used, fnord.

Whenever we try to state what IS Discordianism or what IS counterculture, we seem prone to run into problems. I haven't found Skaggs etc to be "wrong" as much as simply from a different culture. A culture that thought it could Help Mankind, a culture that believed in optimism and bettering the state of Humans. While I have some similarities with that subculture, its not my personal preference. I think Skaggs talked alot about his view, but failed to lay it out as his opinion... it felt much more like his dogmatic statements on Pranks. It seems to me that there is a culture that are pranktivists, aiming their pranks at enemies of their Beliefs and Dogmas. There also seem to be pranksters that prank to be malicious... and there appear to be pranksters (like many of us seem to be) which see the LULZ as a useful reason to Prank. Anonymous, at the beginning seemed more focused on the latter, but now seem to be headed to pranktivism, more than simply pranking. There seems an Anonymous subculture, which (based on my 4Chan surfing) seems like its being converted from Pranking for the LULZ to Pranking for the Betterment of society. I often wonder how many of the Pranktivist posts are from new 'Anonymous' that have wandered in based on the Scientology Pranks, because they were already anti-scientology activists... certianly I've noticed what could be a shift in some of the posts on planning etc.

I think that "counterculture" could be a useful term to describe some subcultures, but I think it may be quite overused.

[Iron Sulfide]

perhaps the users hee that alo attend/post at MLA can raise discussion of the "emergent internet culture?" especially it's signifigance in present time.

assuming you haven't already, or that they would bite at the discussion.

my personal stance on Great Justice Vs. LOLS:

i've been reading a lot of Skald/Norse/Viking poetry (eddas and volupsa saga, atm) tryong to gather as much information on their trickster archetypes for a teutonic spin on Discordia. they did it for the lulz.

[Cain]

If you have the spare money and don't mind a few African/Native American/Greek diversions, I highly recommend Trickster Makes the World as a book to read.

Also, I do intend to participate in the main forum, once the MLA course is over.