The Atheist Delusion

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So we should punish innocent Israelis for the actions of their democratic government....but not innocent Palestinians for the actions of their democratic government (ignoring the for moment that Hamas' military arm is in fact more of a private militia attached to a political party)?

GREAT IDEA!

Incidentally, I believe the large scale forceable movement of people based on nationality is known as ethnic cleansing and is an international war crime for which you can be tried by any country in the world.

There are Israelis who have been born and lived in Israel all of their lives, just as their are Palestinians who have been born and raised in Palestine all their lives.  Should the Israelis stop being dicks, disband the settlements and not resort to military incursions everytime someone in the Occupied Territories sneezes?  Sure.  Equally, should the supposed Palestinian nationalist movements try not killing innocent civilians, promoting Sharia law and taking handouts from Israel's military enemies?  Again yes, unless they want to be seen as proxies for its eventual destruction.

As it happens, I condemn Palestianians for voting Hamas in, in the same way I condemn Israelis for voting for Sharon or Americans for Bush or Brits for Blair.  Because these people and their political programs are fucktarded in the extreme.  They're free to chose and I'm free to call bullshit on their choices.

As an aside, it was the dissolution of the Caliphate by Kemal Ataturk which really screwed up the Middle East.  That was the regional hegemon, and the Turks were good at enforcing order.  He decided the costs of empire were greater than the benefits and so cut loose much of the Middle East, dumping the mess into the lap of the victors, who obviously had no clue as to what sort of shitstorm they had inherited.

Troof

[hunter s.durden]

I saw a couple of bumper stickers on people's cars in the deep south-east of the US which said "BAN FRANCE" on them.  Because you know, nothing says democracy like immediately trying to boycott everything from a country that doesn't agree with you on everything.

I loved this shit.

I actually started liking France because of this nonsense.
Then I remembered that's where the French live.

[Cainad (dec.)]

I spent my tender elementary school years hearing how France helped us fight off Big, Bad Britain all those years ago.

Then my school went and served "Freedom Fries" one day

[tyrannosaurus vex]

To be fair, the French Republic has done nothing for us except surrender to Germany twice and allow us a foothold into the world of Big Powerful Nations. It was King Louis who supported the Revolution.

[e]

France is cool, it's just Paris you gotta watch out for.  Buncha jerks.

Also, France conquered most of Europe at one point.  People always seem to ignore Napoleon in their claims of France-never-done-nothin' for some reason.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

It's because Napoleon was a short man who liked to dress in women's underwear -- which, curiously, is also why French women do not wear underwear to this day.

[Cainad (dec.)]

Is that also why there are no French Discordians that we know of?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

no, the French are Discordian by nature. imagine an entire nation populated by the personality types we find represented by this board, and led by a government that is incapable of doing anything except hosting the Olympics every 24 years, and you have France.

[Dido]

As an aside, it was the dissolution of the Caliphate by Kemal Ataturk which really screwed up the Middle East.  That was the regional hegemon, and the Turks were good at enforcing order.  He decided the costs of empire were greater than the benefits and so cut loose much of the Middle East, dumping the mess into the lap of the victors, who obviously had no clue as to what sort of shitstorm they had inherited.

The ungrateful inhabitants of the former Ottoman territory maintain that before they were treated to several centuries of competently enforced order they had been as peacefully bashing each others heads as humans everywhere else. However, the view that what the Middle East *needs* is military competence has the advantage that it treats all sides as hopeless braindeads and I´d hate to be pedantic in the face of so much realism.

[Dido]

Is that also why there are no French Discordians that we know of?

No, that is because they do not even pretend to be speaking English.

[Triple Zero]

Is that also why there are no French Discordians that we know of?

i know a french discordian. Breton, actually. though he lives in Dublin now (last i've heard of him).

[hunter s.durden]

France is cool, it's just Paris you gotta watch out for.  Buncha jerks.

Sez you.

The last Frenchie I hated was actually not even French, but a French speaking Swiss girl. Apparently just learning that language makes you an asshole.

[e]

Could be, could be. 

TheStripèdOne: used to be an asshole in high school but forgot it all since then because he hasn't used it since.

[hunter s.durden]

We have enough evidence to start a research project.

Call the White House, get us a grant. I'm thinking we might actually get one, because if my theory is correct, the information could be used in the administrations War on France.

[Vene]

Well, I certainly don't want to punish innocent Israelis (I suppose their government is similar to ours in terms of their imperialistic-ness).  I'd like to see a cease to the fighting.  I'm really not sure who or what instigated the violence in the first place but it's gone on long enough.  True, I should have thought out the Hamas being elected a bit more (a terrorist organization is not exactly helping anything).  If there was any way to resolve this bloodshed, I'd be all for it (I'm sure 99% of people would be, too). Like Einstein said, "The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I do wonder why we care so much about the fighting going on between those two countries but ignore (for the most part) serious events happening in Africa.

What started the fighting was the fact that a bunch of Europeans came in and said, "We're taking your holy land and giving it to a different country with a different religion. Hope you dont mind." Then they gave a shitload of guns to the new nation they just created, which proceeded to fight and win seven wars with neighboring countries.

So?  Are we supposed to suddenly start giving a fuck about two groups of people that REFUSE to get along?

Fuck them.  Fuck them right in their fanatical ears.  If they had ANY sort of consideration for the rest of us, they'd have KILLED EACH OTHER OFF, so the rest of us could GET SOME FUCKING SLEEP.

So stop whimpering that one of the groups is somehow morally superior to the other.  They are fucking monkeys, and monkeys are all the same.

Yep, fuck the both of them.  There's no reason that the US should even be involved.