Explorations of confinement.

[Adios]

I am prejudiced against everybody, especially assholes.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You assume that E-Prime leads you to language that has more accuracy, but where's the proof, homie?

No, I think that E-Prime allows us to provide some explanation in the english language showing how we can make decisions without pre-judging unknown data. That's all.

Have any studies demonstrated that the use of E-Prime improves people's ability to do anything better?

None that I'm aware of. However, I don't think that's what I'm trying to say here... I'm only saying that I think we can make decisions without necessarily pre-judging unknown data, and I think E-Prime appears as a model by which we can describe this process to each other through the limited medium of the English language.

What about the critiques of E-Prime?

There are plenty... and a number of them I agree with. Some people forget that its just a model and try to use it all the time. Unfortunately, E-Prime seems like a useful model for some things, but some people appear to use it as the one size fits all... and get their menu and meal all confused.

I think you assume that E-Prime has an association with clarity and accuracy even though this probably has more to do with your personal liking of RAW, Korzybski and the influence of selective thinking than any scientific proof.

I think you may be assuming a lot.

What makes you exempt from expectancy sets, unconscious heuristics, and prejudgment?

E-Prime?

You really don't seem to be listening to my argument... you're arguing against E-Prime as a solution and I agree with that E-Prime is not a solution... E-Prime, in my opinion, can be a useful model/tool to A) help you train your brain to make fewer decisions based on assumptions and B) help you train your brain to catch assumptions before you make decisions, aka The Cosmic Schmuck Principle.

I'm not stating that I NEVER make assumptions, or that I am 100% Cosmic Schmuck Free... I am only arguing that assumptions are not Necessary and decisions can be made without assumptions. We can model decisions that are not based on assumptions by using E-Prime when stating the decision.... if it doesn't fit, then we need to rework the decision to remove the assumptions that don't fit. Model Not Solution.

You don't want to look at the assumptions you make about language but you will try to shove some stuffy linguistic tool down my throat and everyone else's.

Fuck E-Prime and fuck you.

I'm not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. If you don't like E-Prime, don't use it. I'm not saying that we all should use it, or even that we all Should make decisions free of assumptions. Sometimes assumptions are useful (particularly if its a life threatening situation etc).

[Cramulus]

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

DO NEVAR ARGUE WITH A CAMEL!

*note from personal experience*

[Daruko]

they'll  on you
llamas do that too.  I know THAT one from experience.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

E-Prime's fundamental assumption is that it is better to use language without the is of identity.

So when you use E-Prime, you are operating under this assumption.

What's so ironic about this is that E-Prime is supposed to help you put your assumptions out on the table, but you morons somehow insist that E-Prime can magically exempt you from them.

It's also quite amusing that Ratatosk completely glossed over the role of heuristics, previous learnings, beliefs, etcetera and how these elements impact every decision we make. Merely changing the structure of your language doesn't make these largely unconscious influences go away. It helps you become more cognizant of them.


Our brains have evolved to make incredibly rapid decisions that are useful or close enough most of the time. Using a stuffy linguistic model can't overcome that.

Since our mind's comprehension of reality is necessarily limited and incomplete, we must make assumptions to function. Explain how a mental model can contain zero assumptions.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

E-Prime's fundamental assumption is that it is better to use language without the is of identity.

So when you use E-Prime, you are operating under this assumption.

And is that assumption prejudice (which as I recall was the original discussion point) while assumptions are part of prejudice, they do not appear as simply synonyms, as far as I can tell.

What's so ironic about this is that E-Prime is supposed to help you put your assumptions out on the table, but you morons somehow insist that E-Prime can magically exempt you from them.

Again, assumptions do not precisely equate to prejudice.

It's also quite amusing that Ratatosk completely glossed over the role of heuristics, previous learnings, beliefs, etcetera and how these elements impact every decision we make. Merely changing the structure of your language doesn't make these largely unconscious influences go away. It helps you become more cognizant of them.

heuristucs and previous learnings are BASED ON AVAILABLE DATA. They make guesses about future data, they may make assumptions based on past data... but they do not necessaril;y pre-judge unavailable data. You're using assumption and prejudice as identical terms and I disagree that they are.

[Triple Zero]

Our brains have evolved to make incredibly rapid decisions that are useful or close enough most of the time. Using a stuffy linguistic model can't overcome that.

TITCM

[Cain]

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

E-Prime's fundamental assumption is that it is better to use language without the is of identity.

So when you use E-Prime, you are operating under this assumption.

And is that assumption prejudice (which as I recall was the original discussion point) while assumptions are part of prejudice, they do not appear as simply synonyms, as far as I can tell.

What's so ironic about this is that E-Prime is supposed to help you put your assumptions out on the table, but you morons somehow insist that E-Prime can magically exempt you from them.

Again, assumptions do not precisely equate to prejudice.

It's also quite amusing that Ratatosk completely glossed over the role of heuristics, previous learnings, beliefs, etcetera and how these elements impact every decision we make. Merely changing the structure of your language doesn't make these largely unconscious influences go away. It helps you become more cognizant of them.

heuristucs and previous learnings are BASED ON AVAILABLE DATA. They make guesses about future data, they may make assumptions based on past data... but they do not necessaril;y pre-judge unavailable data. You're using assumption and prejudice as identical terms and I disagree that they are.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]