Author Topic: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option  (Read 17574 times)

AFK

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2008, 02:16:50 pm »
Chelsea wasn't a highly educated adult living in the White House.  If you live with (and screw) a paleontologist for eight years, you will probably know more about paleontology than someone who hasn't.

Also add the years he was governor as her gaining experience of the executive sort.  I am not saying it is the same experience as being president.  But if you sit and watch a mechanic work for week you will gain knowledge, whether you touch a car or not. 

Hey, I watched CSPAN once for 8 hours straight.  I'm gonna run for Congress!
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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2008, 04:12:37 pm »
If Hillary's 16+ years of "executive and legislative experience" qualifies her to be president, then surely my 26 years of getting fucked by people with tons of experience qualifies me to call bullshit.
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guest7654

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2008, 09:17:58 pm »
That is not the only experience she has.

The experience of the Bush administration was very effective.  It just wasn't used for our benefit.

Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?
 

Of course it has.  Where have you been?

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As Vex said, Bush's administration team had tons of experience, and Bush himself was both a governor and a son of a President/VP/Chief of the CIA.  Fat lot of good that's done anyone, right?

The experience of the Bush administration was very effective.  They have done and got away with just about everything they set out to do.  It just so happens that what they wanted to do, sucked for the majority of people.  Tax cuts for the rich, Iraq, death tax, etc =/= healthcare, a sensible withdrawal from Iraq, etc.

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So lets assume, for the sake of argument, she is experienced (though I still have my very clear doubts over that).  OK, what does that translate into?  Will she propose the same sort of legislation she has over the past 8 years, only more experienced?  Well, that's the Iranian and Iraqi people fucked, for starters.  Will she pass legislation like the PATRIOT Act (which was based on legislation from her husbands own term as President) more efficiently?  Will she ride roughshod over the institutional checks and balances meant to limit the power of the President more effectively?

Yes, blame Clinton for all the ills that occurred after he left office.  It makes perfect sense.  But those towers were standing when he left, and gas was around $1.30.  He met weekly about the threat of Bin Laden.  Bush ignored it.  Bin Laden is still a threat.

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Also, interestingly and totally off topic, I read McCain was advocating nuclear stockpile reductions as part of his foreign policy.  That's likely a good move, and does offset some of his hawkishness over Iraq.

Well, McCain is not the worst person in the world, by all means.  But regardless of what he says, I am still convinced that he will be bad for the environment, bad for social programs like social security, education, and healthcare, bad for foreign policy, bad for the economy (which he admits he is completely ignorant about), bad for the lower and middle class.
Good for big business, good for the top 10-20%.

But he would probably be 10X better than Bush.

Cain

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2008, 09:26:02 pm »
Yes, blame Clinton for all the ills that occurred after he left office.  It makes perfect sense.  But those towers were standing when he left, and gas was around $1.30.  He met weekly about the threat of Bin Laden.  Bush ignored it.  Bin Laden is still a threat.

OK, now you are pissing me off.

You are putting words in my mouth.  Elements of the PATRIOT Act were based on earlier anti-terrorism legislation from Clinton.  HEY, GUESS WHAT?  I STUDY TERRORISM, FUCKO!  I MAY JUST SPEND ALL DAY READING LEGISLATION AND PAPERS ON COMBATING IT, AND SO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Does that excuse Bush's fuckups?  No.  Bush has done more for Al-Qaeda's survival prospects than any other American leader.  But that doesn't exclude Clinton's own power grabbing assholishness either and I would have thought someone smart enough to hang around on this site would have realized criticizing one side doesn't mean batting for the other.

Maybe you should try capitolgrilling.com, its probably more your speed.  Dick.

AFK

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2008, 09:29:21 pm »

Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?
 

Of course it has.  Where have you been?

Examples please.  Specific examples. 
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Cain

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2008, 09:32:07 pm »

Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?
 

Of course it has.  Where have you been?

Examples please.  Specific examples. 

THE KYL-LIEBERMAN AMMENDMENT IS A GREAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION!  UNLESS YOU'RE IRANIAN, HUH HUH HUH!

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2008, 09:59:32 pm »
Well, I am biased.  I am a Liberal Democrat.  But as for Hillary's exp, well, Bill will be there with her, and he has Experience Aura which gives surrounding friendly units, +10% exp per kill, sChip, age, and did I mention Bill.   :)

So you are basically supporting Hillary because she is the back door for Bill who cannot be reelected himself?
This is the best argument ever against the feminists-have-to-support-Hillary-reasoning.

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2008, 10:20:04 pm »

Well, McCain is not the worst person in the world, by all means.  But regardless of what he says, I am still convinced that he will be bad for the environment,

Have you researched this much? Mccain has been pretty decent on the environment... not Al Gore level dogmatic or anything, but reasonable. He's pushed hard to protect ANWAR (even with the oil crunch) and well:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/02/13/the_turning_point_on_global_warming/

- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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guest7654

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2008, 11:22:54 pm »
I say drill in ANWAR, fuck the caribou.  I base my opinion, that he will be bad for the environment, on the recent history of the Republican party (like 1980-present).

But anyway, we could argue about who's proposals/positions are better till the cows come home.  We can also beat up on Hillary till the cows come home.  It is the cool thing to do, and everyone's doing it, so there are plenty of examples to choose from.  Sorry I'm not on the bandwagon.

This is all about political opinions, and mine is that McCain is to shit, as Clinton/Obama is to cake.  It is my opinion.  Maybe steak/burger would be a more acceptable metaphor for you.

But if you like Obama based on more than just the "hope and change' bs, or that he is young/black/handsome/etc, and you base it on the issues, then voting for McCain if Hillary wins the nomination would be pretty silly.

Another thing, if you wait until November to decide who to vote for, you are probably pretty stupid as well, and should just stay home.  Something like 2% of voters, vote for whoever is on the left side of the ballot.  I would bet that the majority of those tards spout off the same undecided bs, just because they are too lazy and ignorant to understand the issues and make up their mind.  Yes, I'm an asshole.  I know.


tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2008, 11:42:16 pm »
voting for mccain if hillary wins is stupid.

if hillary steals the nomination, however, that does not count as "winning."

in that case, voting for mccain has nothing to do with the issues, it has to do with the principal of despising the democratic party for ignoring the voice of the voters. i, like millions of other democrats, never bothered to find out about the 'superdelegates' until they became an issue this year. and just because the rules are written such that those people can vote against the popular vote if they want to doesn't mean the rules are right.
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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2008, 12:49:22 am »
Well, why don't you just vote for Nader or stay home, since Bush stole the 2000 and 04'  elections and we are blaming entire parties for things.
They probably wont, but if they do, it wouldn't be stealing anyway.  I can see where you are coming from, but it just doesn't hold up.  Why vote against your interests because some elected superdelegates decide that Hillary has the better chance of winning (or whatever they base their decisions on)?

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2008, 02:11:44 pm »
From what I can tell, a large part of Europe is in love with Obama. 

Considering that the US needs to get back to using 'soft power', an Obama presidency would be a good step in that direction.

Hell, he might even be able to build a real coilition.

AFK

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2008, 02:24:28 pm »
Well, why don't you just vote for Nader or stay home, since Bush stole the 2000 and 04'  elections and we are blaming entire parties for things.
They probably wont, but if they do, it wouldn't be stealing anyway.  I can see where you are coming from, but it just doesn't hold up.  Why vote against your interests because some elected superdelegates decide that Hillary has the better chance of winning (or whatever they base their decisions on)?


1)  Bush didn't steal 04.  Kerry was a lifeless idiot and seemingly did everything he could do to lose it.  I'd say the same thing about Gore in 2000 though the shenannigans in Florida certainly did help Bush. 

2)  You're right, it isn't stealing if the Superdelegates override the popular vote.  However it will be rank hypocrisy on the part of Hillary Clinton, who just last night at her Elton John concert/fundraiser again burped out her talking points about making sure votes in Michigan and Florida counted.  Her philosophy being they shouldn't be disenfranchised.  But isn't overriding the popular vote disenfranchising?  Well yes it is. 

Hillary Clinton wears her dishonesty and disingenuousness on her sleeve.  If Hillary does somehow get the nomination, perhaps voting for McCain isn't the answer.  But I know personally I don't think I'd be able to check the box next to her name.  I don't feel like rewarding that kind of hypocrisy with the power of the Presidency. 
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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2008, 09:04:08 pm »
I just wouldn't blame her for it.  She is in it to win it, and if you have a chance of winning, why give in to everyone telling you to give up?  She does not have control over all the superdelegates.  Of course, from my understanding, there would be much wheeling and dealing if it boiled down to that.  Especially if nobody got 2024 after the first vote.  But popular vote isn't what is counted, ie Gore.   

They require 2024 delegates, and if they don't get them, it is a virtual tie, broken by the superdelegates.  Of course, the media, and just about everyone else, doesn't see it that way.  So maybe, its just me.


AFK

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2008, 09:11:35 pm »
Thank you, yes I know how many delegates are required to win the nomination.  But the Pledged Delegates are chosen according to how the primary and caucus votes go in each state.  The Democrats split the pledged delegates according to what percentage of the popular vote is won in each state.  Therefore, at the end of the primary season, the candidate with  the most pledged delegates is also going to have the popular vote because of that system.  So, yes, at the end Obama may not have the 2024, but if he still has the 150 delegate lead that will correspond to a considerable lead in the popular vote. 

So, the Superdelegates, if they cast their lot with whoever is on the short end of the stick, will be overriding the will of the people, because they will be going against the popular sentiment, i.e. the popular vote.  Technically, yes, they CAN do it.  But is it right for them to snub their nose at the everyday Democrat voters, the majority of which are saying they want Obama, not Hillary? 

And I will blame Hillary because it is her campaign who keeps talking about the Superdelegates considering who is more electable.  They are driving this possibility, and they are driving it hard. 
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