Author Topic: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option  (Read 19606 times)

guest7654

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2008, 09:26:17 pm »
She wouldn't have to say anything and it would still come down to the superdelegates.  It seems everyone is mad at her for not dropping out.  And technically, the superdelegates should do what they feel is right, regardless of popular vote.  Personally I would rather see a pure popular vote, all cast (except for early voting) and counted at the same time.  But thats not the way it is, so I support following the rules as they were set up before this game started.  I don't think it is fair to say, "no, no, we don't like that rule now that it has come into play, let's not use it." 

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2008, 09:36:57 pm »
The reason the rules are now in question is because so many Democrats never knew that this is how the rules were written to begin with. Sure, it's their own fault for not educating themselves, but the point still stands. Most Democrats, myself among them, do not see why there should be an oversight body at all -- if there is a "virtual tie," a difference of even one popular vote should decide it, period.

As for Hillary, she isn't just asking the Superdelegates to buck the popular vote. She is also actively fishing for pledged delegates to change their vote -- people who were selected to vote for Obama, who can technically vote for Clinton instead. This is disenfranchisement of the worst possible order -- not only is it disregard for the popular vote, but a direct assault on it. It also completely negates her hypocritical demands not to "disenfranchise" Florida and Michigan voters.
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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2008, 09:38:38 pm »
to Rzasthole:
No, but it removes the process from the people, when all is said and done, their will is going to be ignored by those in power, if they go down that path.  How Democratic is that for the Democrat party?  It's another example of The Machine(tm) and The System(tm) putting the screws to the little guy.  Should we really want that kind of behavior encouraged AND rewarded?  
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guest7654

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2008, 10:41:04 pm »
I am all for reforming our election process.  I just don't think we should do it in the middle of an election.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2008, 10:47:59 pm »
reforming the election process isn't going to happen until some titwank at the top of the foodchain is forced to support changing it. letting the system override voters in favor of clinton isn't going to produce much impetus to get that done unless the dems lose in a big way this year.
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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2008, 03:38:55 am »
Warning: Unsolicited opinion follows

As a Discordian, I support Hilary because she has a dedicated fan base and an equally dedicated base of people who hate her guts. People seem to hate her more than they hated Bill. This outrageous division of opinion would create internal discord on the same level as the Bush administration during the 2004 election, before she even made it into office.
(Seriously, ask a random selection of people what they think about Hilary Clinton. You will very quickly find people whose eyes glow red and froth at the mouth whenever her name is mentioned; it's actually kind of funny.)

As a United Statesian, I support Obama because another 4 to 8 years of half the country hating the president would be detrimental to pretty much any progress.

In other words, it's not Hilary's fault.

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2008, 06:45:47 am »
Half of the country is going to hate whoever.  Bill had like a 68?% approval rating when he left?  Of course half the country still hates the Clinton's.  Because everyone says that.
And Hillary would probably bring more progress than Obama.  But you can think that if it helps.

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2008, 08:13:21 am »
Half of the country is going to hate whoever.  Bill had like a 68?% approval rating when he left?  Of course half the country still hates the Clinton's.  Because everyone says that.
And Hillary would probably bring more progress than Obama.  But you can think that if it helps.

As an individual, perhaps. But with a couple million yahoos screaming, "FUCK YOU, HILLARY!" in a supposedly democratic society, not much is going to get done.

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2008, 08:49:01 am »
Bush got plenty done with "a couple million yahoos screaming, "FUCK YOU"

Cain

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2008, 11:19:05 am »
Yeah, but they didn't have control of Congress, or were part of his own party.

As I recall, the Republican legislature gave two fingers to the Dems repeatedly and slavishly went along with whatever Bush did.  There is no real comparison, because the two million people going "fuck Bush" all posted on Democratic Underground and Daily Kos who, surprisingly, have no constitutional say in the running of the country beyond voting.  And as we recently found out, leading Democrats were actually getting very rich off Bush's policies (the Democratic Party has more money invested in military and security companies than the Republicans, on average) and that leading Democrats also knew about many of Bush's policies, including the illegal ones, well before the public was ever informed.  There is certainly a high level of complicity in Bush's wrongs and theirs, as an aside.

A Democratic Party where tensions are already running high between the Obama and Clinton camps is another thing entirely.  Outspoken and influential Hillary supporters online are being courted and encouraged by liberal Republicans to continue their fight with Obama, and often compare his followers to Ron Paul's in order to try and empathize with Hillary's supporters.  Equally, some Obama supporters have made it clear that if Hillary does win, they will vote for McCain.

Either way, whoever does win will face a hostile faction of their own party who may support the Republicans in hope that McCain does only serve 4 years, using the intervening time to crush resistance within their party to their own nomination for 2012.  Even assuming Obama or Clinton did become President, which seems increasingly unlikely (whispers of McCain adding Condi as VP are being floated, and seem popular.  More popular than Obama/Clinon or Clinton/Obama at least), there is still the chance that one of those would encourage bi-partisan cooperation in order to railroad and limit the power of the President, while they continue to build their own power base.  Clinton could probably do this more on foreign affairs and the military, Obama on others, but the option is open to both.

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2008, 06:30:58 am »
What Cain said. Also, cocks.



You know what, I'm gonna call this one right now:

McCain (ZOMG son of Cain?!) wins, Dems hilariously forced into years of internal bickering, and the GOP gets to plant its fat, white bottom on the seat of power yet again.

guest7654

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2008, 10:41:17 pm »
I give McCain 65% odds.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2008, 10:50:25 pm »
too generous. mccain doesn't have the ability to polarize the electorate like a more conservative person would. republicans will vote for him, but not because they like him. on the other hand (assuming he is the nominee), obama will have the support of the same democrats who got a 50% vote for Gore and Kerry, plus millions of other people who would normally be sitting this election out. if it goes to the general election, i'll actually be surprised if obama doesn't win -- barring some terrible gaffe or new information, which will probably happen, because that's what always happens when America gets too close to doing something right for a change. so mathematically, it's obama. but factor in Eris, and yeah, it'll be McCain.
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Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2008, 12:25:43 am »
I give McCain 65% odds.

Naw.  He'll have a fit or two of retard rage, and he'll be done.
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