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The First Church of the Holy Lie

Started by Iason Ouabache, April 12, 2008, 09:02:28 AM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#15
April 13, 2008, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on April 13, 2008, 06:36:15 AM
the problem with everybody being "honest" is that even honesty is a lie. for humans, the truth is way too easy to confuse with your opinion. when you're being "brutally honest," are you really telling an objective truth, or are you telling the truth as you see it? they're two different things. humans are naturally terrible at being objective, so of course we lie and manipulate. telling me to tell the truth all the time is telling me to put too much energy into people who aren't worth it.

Bollocks.  There is opinion, and there is truth.
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- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Roo

#16
April 13, 2008, 05:02:21 PM
Facts are facts. It's the interpretation of them that becomes the lie.

IOW, there is truth, but most of us have no fucking clue what it is.

But the idea of people consciously NOT lying...when they could have, or normally would have. yeah, that would throw a few kinks in the works.

Cain

#17
April 13, 2008, 05:38:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2008, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on April 13, 2008, 06:36:15 AM
the problem with everybody being "honest" is that even honesty is a lie. for humans, the truth is way too easy to confuse with your opinion. when you're being "brutally honest," are you really telling an objective truth, or are you telling the truth as you see it? they're two different things. humans are naturally terrible at being objective, so of course we lie and manipulate. telling me to tell the truth all the time is telling me to put too much energy into people who aren't worth it.

Bollocks.  There is opinion, and there is truth.

Yeah, but most people cannot tell the difference between their opinions and facts.

I think we should invade Iraq: opinion.
Iraq presents no greater security threat to the USA than it did in the last decade: fact.

The problem is, people make value judgements not based on facts, but on the little voices in their heads that tell them what is right and wrong and how the world is "supposed to work".  Often this involves some sort of dubious book of Middle Eastern origin, shoddy scholarship, suck, fail and hallucinatory mushrooms.

The Good Reverend Roger

#18
April 13, 2008, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 13, 2008, 05:38:38 PM

Yeah, but most people cannot tell the difference between their opinions and facts.

I think we should invade Iraq: opinion.
Iraq presents no greater security threat to the USA than it did in the last decade: fact.

The problem is, people make value judgements not based on facts, but on the little voices in their heads that tell them what is right and wrong and how the world is "supposed to work".  Often this involves some sort of dubious book of Middle Eastern origin, shoddy scholarship, suck, fail and hallucinatory mushrooms.

Troof.  This is reason #345 that I hate people.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

#19
April 14, 2008, 04:26:06 PM
I think you might be confusing "telling the truth" with "saying all the negative shit you wouldn't normally say due to common courtesy."


P3nT4gR4m

#20
April 14, 2008, 04:28:48 PM
Honesty is a shit policy, eg.

Q) "Does my ass look big in these jeans?"

A) I'm not getting laid tonite  :argh!:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
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Reginald Ret

#21
April 14, 2008, 07:41:06 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 14, 2008, 04:28:48 PM
Honesty is a shit policy, eg.

Q) "Does my ass look big in these jeans?"

A) I'm not getting laid tonite  :argh!:

that's not really a question, thats just her way of telling you she feels too bad to have sex today.
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wade

#22
April 14, 2008, 08:58:13 PM Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 09:00:53 PM by wun-zee-row-fow-er
Quote from: IasonOuabache on April 12, 2008, 09:02:28 AM
You are a liar.

Yes, you.  You and every single other human on this planet.  All of us have told some lie or another at some time in their life.  A little white lie here, a small fib there, a sin of omission every now and then. Why do we do it?  Because we can't help ourselves. We lie to our friends to make them feel better.  We lie to our enemies to place traps in their way.  But most of all we lie to ourselves to protect us from the bitter truth.

Now, imagine what would happen if every single person on this planet had to tell the absolute truth for one day.  Every man, woman, and child. Every politician and lawyer. Every priest and holy man. Every salesman and haggler. What would happen? How many marriage would be destroyed? How many wars would be started? How many people would riot in the streets? Would all of society be reduced to rubble in less than a day? Maybe we need all of these little white lies and slight embellishments to glue our civilization together.

Being honest is over-rated.

If a women ever asked me if I have ever been to a brothel, I am screwed because I hate to lie...  Then again, I don't ever expect to have any fulfilling type of relationship with someone anyways. I'm broken...  too far gone...  mental.

:(  I am one sorry individual, I must admit.

edit:
For everyone to be honest, I suspect everyone should also be a little less judgemental as well?  (for my sake)
REALLY real discordians

i wouldnt hurt a fly
:thumb: :kojak:

Triple Zero

#23
April 14, 2008, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: wun-zee-row-fow-er on April 14, 2008, 08:58:13 PMI don't ever expect to have any fulfilling type of relationship with someone anyways. I'm broken...  too far gone...  mental.

:(  I am one sorry individual, I must admit.

:emo:
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e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

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wade

#24
April 14, 2008, 09:08:11 PM
Quote from: triple zero on April 14, 2008, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: wun-zee-row-fow-er on April 14, 2008, 08:58:13 PMI don't ever expect to have any fulfilling type of relationship with someone anyways. I'm broken...  too far gone...  mental.

:(  I am one sorry individual, I must admit.

:emo:
meh...  that's my current appraisal of self.   :|   if anyone 'knows' why I posted my 'self appraisal' hopefully your smart enough to ignore it.
REALLY real discordians

i wouldnt hurt a fly
:thumb: :kojak:

Triple Zero

#25
April 14, 2008, 09:09:26 PM
no i was just pointing out why anybody might give you the emo label
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Roo

#26
April 14, 2008, 09:30:53 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 14, 2008, 04:28:48 PM
Honesty is a shit policy, eg.

Q) "Does my ass look big in these jeans?"

A) I'm not getting laid tonite  :argh!:

A) only applies if you don't like big butts.  :D


wade

#27
April 14, 2008, 09:32:41 PM
Quote from: triple zero on April 14, 2008, 09:09:26 PM
no i was just pointing out why anybody might give you the emo label
ok.
REALLY real discordians

i wouldnt hurt a fly
:thumb: :kojak:

Golden Applesauce

#28
April 14, 2008, 09:36:48 PM
I'd settle for a day where everybody just had to be honest with themselves.  Failing that, a day where I have to be honest with myself.
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

#29
April 14, 2008, 10:50:23 PM
IMO, you can be honest and silent at the same time.
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