Rev Roger Sermon #11: Land of the Yahoos

[MapleMan]

Were all motivated by the same things when it comes down to it, nobody is a monster none of those you named are exceptions.

[Z³]

Were all motivated by the same things when it comes down to it, nobody is a monster none of those you named are exceptions.

I disagree, but I approach this from a different standpoint.

Yes, humans are all motivated by essentially the same thing, and thats self preservation and interest. But there are distinguishing characteristics about how people approach it, and how much they look out for other people as well as themselves.

Because I am opinionated, and believe myself to have a small grasp of what is "right" and "wrong" according to my own ethics/morality/honor... I reserve the right to apply the label "monster" to anything that grossly defies that.

Funny, how I'd apply that label to my countries own leader for helping turn that nation into a theocracy.

[MapleMan]

But the way people aproach things is based on both there situation and who they are neither of whitch they choose, now you might claim that they do choose who they are and they do choose there situation, but those choices all stem from there situation and themselves, which stem's from there situation and themselves, and so on and so forth.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But the way people aproach things is based on both there situation and who they are neither of whitch they choose, now you might claim that they do choose who they are and they do choose there situation, but those choices all stem from there situation and themselves, which stem's from there situation and themselves, and so on and so forth.

No offense, but...RUBBISH! (John Cleese voice)  We are all motivated by the same basic drives...however, how we respond to those drives is entirely a matter of choice.  We have drives, not instincts.  Instincts cannot be disobeyed, drives can.

Otherwise, the entire human population would act just like Hitler.

[Lord Trout]

I'm sorry but planes don't just fall out of the sky. The attacks were not acts of aggression, they were acts of retalliation for 50 years of crippling US foreign policy. As much as the attacks were wrong in every sense of the word, it was the US who brought this upon themselves.

Isn't that kind-of like saying that the Palestinians have brought the wrath of the Israelis down upon themselves, by conducting suicide attacks upon the Jewish state? It's a "Chicken and Egg" problem: Which came first, the invasive US foreign policy in the Middle-East, or the unfriendly Islamic states against which these policies are aimed? Same goes for the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

The Middle-Eastern states say the US started it, by sticking our noses in where it wasn't wanted. We say we stuck our noses in, to stop the spread of Communism, Islamic Fundamentalism, and to protect our friend Israel. So who is right?

I don't know, either.

[Z³]

But the way people aproach things is based on both there situation and who they are neither of whitch they choose, now you might claim that they do choose who they are and they do choose there situation, but those choices all stem from there situation and themselves, which stem's from there situation and themselves, and so on and so forth.

No offense, but...RUBBISH! (John Cleese voice)  We are all motivated by the same basic drives...however, how we respond to those drives is entirely a matter of choice.  We have drives, not instincts.  Instincts cannot be disobeyed, drives can.

Otherwise, the entire human population would act just like Hitler.

Heh... its the Gom Jabbar.

[phantom pope]

can really enjoy your debate:
T H I N K I N G   H E L P S ! ! !


ever w0ndered about the fact in a democracy that people are able
to elect/vote for ANY goverment for ANY period of time -

BUT THE DAY AFTER

in a DEMOCRACY people are UNable (not allowed/forbidden) at ANY
time to diselect/cancel/change their votes...

where is the p0wer of the people? when it c0mes up to facts like in
spain: 80% against the iraq-war, prime aznar (bushdog like blair) just
let things happen like god-given! and the really pity about that is people
in arabia didn't receive all that KEY-POINTS.

phantom pope (chANGErANGE)

[phantom pope]

phantom pope (911alarm911)

[Euphoric]

Note: This is the result of several hours of discussion back and forth between two friends, late at night, not sure wether to laugh or cry at the World around them. It was the kind of discussion where world problems are solved. It was the kind of discussion that was biased, reflected, and full of prejudices of every kind. It was the kind of discussion that needed a bar to sit next to, and a pair of refilling pint glasses.
All we had were packets of cigarettes and a couch, with a television droning in the background. But we made do.

Once, some feller told people that the world was round. Then he sailed to India. Only it wasn't India. It was somewhere else instead. Now, in this Somewhere Else Instead, there lived a lot of little red men (as opposed to the little brown men in Africa and other primitive parts of the world, and the little yellow men in China, and the Great White Man in Europe). And the Great White Man did as he always did; he gave the wonders of civilization to the little red men. Now, the Great White Man doesn't always agree with himself, but it was quickly determined that Somewhere Else Instead held great promise and a billion dreams. And the malcontents and the freaks of Europe needed a place to get away from persecution. So they traveled to this Somewhere Else Instead, and found that it stretched far, far north, and far, far west. And they encountered other little red men, and gave them the wonders of civilization. Their price: The land of the little red men. But they graciously allowed the little red men to travel to secluded spots, which they named reservations. After killing those that wouldn't fit in there, of course.
Now, among the Great White Men who came to Somewhere Else Instead, where a few folks who'd decided that a little knowledge was a dangerous thing, and you should listen to your parents, eat your pea soup, and read the Bible of the White Christ (as my viking forefathers called that carpenter from Galileh (sp?) with the idea that people should be nice to one another), and preferably, only the Bible of the White Christ. Along with a few others, they decided that they didn't want anything to do with their oppressors, the Great White Men who'd stayed back in Europe.
Because they had a dream. A dream of freedom and liberty. With capital letters. So they made war, not love, and gained their freedom and their liberty, and men of Vision sat down, and made a brave new country. That this country eventually became the size of the european continent as a whole didn't bother them.
However, as previously noted, a little knowledge is a bad thing, according to some people (among others, the Puritans, who had found that they quite liked the north-eastern part of the land. Because there was, among other things, this cool bird called "turkey" there. Much like the country, but with less sand niggers. But that is neither here nor there). So you have a lot of isolationist, ignorant people who come together and create a country. What do you get, some 400-500 years later? A country to large to effectively govern itself, divided in some fifty states, founded on ignorance and fear, and living on ignorance and fear. The people of this country have freedom to do what they want, including a god-given right to carry firearms and to fire them, and, should the government turn bad, to use against them. Nevermind that the government has, at this point, large tanks and other artillery, and weapons of mass destruction.

Now, humans being humans, in these 400 odd years, there have been some wars. At a point in time, the huge, ignorant mass that was Somewhere Else Instead decided that since little yellow people were attacking them, and a little Great White Man from Austria with a funny moustache was brewing trouble in Europe, they ought to give the old boys in Europe a hand. And so they did. And they also tried out their nifty new toy on some little yellow people on a small island that wasn't to important, because only little yellow people lived there. It was a nifty toy. It was capable of splitting atoms.

Feeling good about themselves for winning the war that the silly Great White Men in Europe had been battling (or so the people of Somewhere Else Instead thought), they decided they'd keep a hand in this "war"-business. Because they were a Power to be Reckoned With now that they had split the atom, and those people in Eastern Europe who was making a bad copy of them were rather threatening, so they needed to keep in shape.

And they did so, never fighting on their own land, but bombing the shit out of a lot of Unimportant Countries with little yellow men, mostly, and getting a nasty bite in the 1970s. But that was ok. Because they were still a Contender!
And then, the Sand Niggers began making trouble. There was another guy with a funny moustache, who tried his hand at this "secular rule"-thingamajig in one of the many little desert lands with little brown people, and decided that since he didn't have a coast line to his land, and there was a small land with a coastline and lots of oil as one of his neighbouring countries (the oil was an unepected bonus), they would probably like to live under his beneficient rule. The people of Somewhere Else Instead didn't agree, and sent a lot of people with Big Fucking Guns to the desert to press buttons and blow shit up. Which was fun. And eventually, the man with the funny moustache sulkily went home. And there was much rejoicing, for the people of Somewhere Else Instead had once again proven that they were right in not trusting people not from Somewhere Else Instead, and that they didn't need to know jack shit. And the guy with a name which bore certain allegorical similarities to Tree was done serving as the leader of this land.

It is a sad fact, as the Son of Mr. Tree rules Somewhere Else Instead, to see that, as often happens, people who were picked on as children grow up to become bullies. The fat and bloated Somewhere Else Instead decides that it has indeed the right to govern the world. After all, they are the biggest free land in the world, because places where little yellow men, or little brown men, or... No, wait, the little red men are all dead or Civilized. Sorry. Places where little yellow men and little brown men rule are of course not free places. One cannot, after all, buy a gun on a street corner in all those places. And when you can buy a gun, it's often because the ruler of that small place is a tyrant who likes his people killing each other. And they get to buy bigger guns.
But luckily, Somewhere Else Instead has the biggest guns.

So, the Son of Tree is tired of talking to other Great White Men from Europe and little men of various colours from the rest of the world. And he sits back from the sandbox, holding his bright and shiny gun up, and says: "It's okay. I rule a land of freedom and democracy, the land of the Right Way, so it's perfectly alright for me to tell other lands how they should be governed, and if I don't like the rulers of those other lands, I know better who should rule there, so I can give those countries to whomever I want. And you are all stupid do-do heads for disagreeing with me. Come on, Tony. Let's kick the ass of that stupid sand nigger."

This little fight started because the unthinkable happened. Someone brought the fight home to Somewhere Else Instead by flying some aeroplanes into some really tall buildings, and because the people of Somewhere Else Instead's lives are worth so much more than the lives of some little brown or yellow people, who go around dying in great numbers everyday anyway, the media gave those areoplanes and those tall buildings a lot of attention.

First, it was decided that a small country housed the guy who did it. It was a Fascist Theocracy. And, as the Son of Tree could've put it: "We don't like your kind 'round here."
So they replaced the unjust theocracy. Hooray!
And then, the Son of Tree said: "Aha! That guy with the funny moustache obviously has a lot in common with the evil priest of the dark god Allah! He's one of dem mos-lems. Let's get him too."
Which was wrong, because the guy with the funny moustache (not the Great White Man, the sand nigger) was very secular, and indeed, the clergy of the dark god Allah frowned upon him because he was not properly into their evil ways.

And this is where we stand now. The guy with the funny moustache says he hasn't got any BFGs, and the Son of Tree says "Yes you do! And now I'm gonna use my BFGs since I can't find yours!"
And the Great White Men of Europe shake their heads and grit their teeth in frustration.


Alright, rant mode off. Needed to get that out.
To reiterate the main points:
- Americans as a whole are stoo-pid. Americans as individuals can be okay, even if the president is a shaved baboon.
- Europeans are a bunch of smart-ass arseholes.
- People who are neither from Europe nor America don't matter.
- The US should stop treating knowledge like an armed bomb, and stop treating armed bombs like candy.
- Hey, US-dweebs! Unlike what you may think, the rest of the world is NOT out to get you. And, we might even find you likeable. If you cut the fucking attitude!

Oops. Slipped into rant mode again.
I'm all done now.

Euphoric
-Norwegian Ninja. I do children's parties.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Alright, rant mode off. Needed to get that out.
To reiterate the main points:
- Americans as a whole are stoo-pid. Americans as individuals can be okay, even if the president is a shaved baboon.
- Europeans are a bunch of smart-ass arseholes.
- People who are neither from Europe nor America don't matter.
- The US should stop treating knowledge like an armed bomb, and stop treating armed bombs like candy.
- Hey, US-dweebs! Unlike what you may think, the rest of the world is NOT out to get you. And, we might even find you likeable. If you cut the fucking attitude!

1.  The majority of Americans did not vote for GW Bush.  American as a whole are not stupid, just too cynical to get involved in the political process.
2.  Europeans are currently what Americans used to be: Free.
3.  People from neither Europe nor America don't matter?  REEALLLY?  I wonder what the Canadians on this forum would have to say about that?  To what level of importance do you relegate the other 89% of humanity?
4.  Just because the rest of the world isn't out to get America doesn't mean that GW Bush isn't out to get YOU.  This is the year of the monkey...and if it isn't, it should be.

[Lister]

It's the year of the goat; the year of the monkey is 2004.

See?  Europeans ARE smart-asses...  

[Y.M. Hut]

Year of the Ram!

I've said this before.

So it seems that us unimportant Canadians are also smartasses.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It's the year of the goat; the year of the monkey is 2004.

See?  Europeans ARE smart-asses...  

No, I was not using the Chinese calendar, I was using the new American calendar.  The year of the monkey began on Nov 7, 2000 and will end (I HOPE) on Nov 7, 2004.

It's also the year of the goat, but the goat is US!

[Holy Empress of Saturn]

If it doesn't, this stoo-pid yet important American will be going someplace unimportant, like Canada. Or maybe Mexico; they have good food and tequila, I'd be pretty well-off, and I don't drink much water anyway.

[Y.M. Hut]

I'm sorry but planes don't just fall out of the sky. The attacks were not acts of aggression, they were acts of retalliation for 50 years of crippling US foreign policy. As much as the attacks were wrong in every sense of the word, it was the US who brought this upon themselves.

Isn't that kind-of like saying that the Palestinians have brought the wrath of the Israelis down upon themselves, by conducting suicide attacks upon the Jewish state? It's a "Chicken and Egg" problem: Which came first, the invasive US foreign policy in the Middle-East, or the unfriendly Islamic states against which these policies are aimed? Same goes for the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

The Middle-Eastern states say the US started it, by sticking our noses in where it wasn't wanted. We say we stuck our noses in, to stop the spread of Communism, Islamic Fundamentalism, and to protect our friend Israel. So who is right?

I don't know, either.

I believe it was the UN that "stuck their noses" into Palestine, by creating the Jewish State of Israel after WW2. I find it ironic that Israel means "struggle with God", it seems that the Jews have struggled for their entire existence as a people and throwing them into the mess that is the Middle East was just furthering their struggle.

So it was the UN that brought the "wrath" of the Israelis on Palestine. Palestinians now employ suicide attacks simply because they have no alternative. Think about it, how much oppression would it take for you to take your OWN life? It would be a hell of a lot.

US intervention in the Middle East is not as simple as Israel and Palestine though. They have consistently meddled in the foreign affairs of Middle Eastern states for decades now.

So in terms of the chicken and the egg, it was neither. It was, and always will be, the fault of the United States.