Hearts and Minds

[Idem]

I had an "ofuk" moment in the middle of it.

[P3nT4gR4m]

- I just had one of those moments of clarity!

question: how do we win? Organisation? Disorganisation?

[Cain]

- I just had one of those moments of clarity!

question: how do we win? Organisation? Disorganisation?

Not sure yet.  Its something I'm researching though.

Me = spending today at several dozen modern military theory sites, C&Ping relevant info.  Once I'm finished and I have something possibly relevant, I'll be sure to get back to you.

In the meantime, I highly recomment http://www.skilluminati.com/ as a sort of introduction to this sort of thinking.

[BootyBay]

Too bad you can't just say it... (lol I guess the 1st amendment isn't always correct)

[wade]

Could cain write a letter that covers an 8 by 11 sheet of paper... 

it would only cost me about 300$ to get 5000 copies of it made up... and I could either pay the local town newspaper to deliver it for me, or I could deliver it myself late at night...  although, I would rather deliver it myself if I had a gang of friends with me...

[Dysnomia]

would probably be easier to just copy it into word, and print it out.  Then either print out tons of copies, or take it somewhere to have it copied. 

[LMNO]

Could cain write a letter that covers an 8 by 11 sheet of paper... 

Dys is right.  DIY.  Format it on yr own.

[BootyBay]

I really liked this post by the way.  It's almost like the manifesto running through my thoughts at any given moment (albeit more advanced).

[Adjective Noun]

Surely 'psyops' is just the latest version of something thats always been with us, since the dawn of communication and society? After all, slandering your rivals and attempting to break the morale of enemies isnt very new. Loved the rant, just wondering whether you meant to imply it is a modern phenomenon.

Also, what would 'winning' look like, to all you mentioning it?

[BootyBay]

Surely 'psyops' is just the latest version of something thats always been with us, since the dawn of communication and society? After all, slandering your rivals and attempting to break the morale of enemies isnt very new. Loved the rant, just wondering whether you meant to imply it is a modern phenomenon.

Also, what would 'winning' look like, to all you mentioning it?

Note quite since the dawn of comm. and society.  Well, maybe in primitive form.  Ghengis Kahn turned it into a science.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Also, what would 'winning' look like, to all you mentioning it?

Perched atop a mountain of smouldering bodies, playing purple haze on a looted strat.

Metaphorically of course. 

[Adjective Noun]

Of course, so metaphorically, you need a minigun and a shopping mall.

Also, yeah primitive form is what I meant. After all, quite a few animals use deception to make themselves look more dangerous to attackers.

[Cain]

Surely 'psyops' is just the latest version of something thats always been with us, since the dawn of communication and society? After all, slandering your rivals and attempting to break the morale of enemies isnt very new. Loved the rant, just wondering whether you meant to imply it is a modern phenomenon.

Also, what would 'winning' look like, to all you mentioning it?

Well, the difference is that the conception of "enemy" has expanded to include the ostensibly friendly civilian population that the army and government in theory are meant to protect.  That's the major difference.  It elevates the concept of a battlefield even further than the conception of terrorism does.  The battlefield becomes the individual psychology of every individual, not just those bearing arms or supporting those who bear arms against the government of the day.  Its a combination of thoughtcrime and the reversal of the social contract, all in one.

And that is a very different thing to carrying out traditional psychological operations.  They're direct inward and against people with dissenting opinions, as official policy.

Also, winning is the act of getting others to accept your interests.  I could guess what those interests were in many cases, but not all of them.

[Adjective Noun]

Ah, get what you mean now. Dissent is not too new, but the attitude to it is.

Also, accept as in tolerate or accept as in adopt?

I just get very curious when someone talks about 'winning' in this kind of topic, especially someone as apparently knowledgable about this kind of thing as you

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Surely 'psyops' is just the latest version of something thats always been with us, since the dawn of communication and society? After all, slandering your rivals and attempting to break the morale of enemies isnt very new. Loved the rant, just wondering whether you meant to imply it is a modern phenomenon.

Also, what would 'winning' look like, to all you mentioning it?

Well, the difference is that the conception of "enemy" has expanded to include the ostensibly friendly civilian population that the army and government in theory are meant to protect.  That's the major difference.  It elevates the concept of a battlefield even further than the conception of terrorism does.  The battlefield becomes the individual psychology of every individual, not just those bearing arms or supporting those who bear arms against the government of the day.  Its a combination of thoughtcrime and the reversal of the social contract, all in one.

And that is a very different thing to carrying out traditional psychological operations.  They're direct inward and against people with dissenting opinions, as official policy.

I wonder how often it is, that these sorts of things are truly new... or just new in the sense that someone found a label and definition for it?

It seems to me, and I'd have to dig through my brain for some history class ... but either the Romans or the Ottoman or one of those early AD nations were using psyops on their own people... telling them everything was fine and they were winning, all the while the hordes were chewing through the empire.

I also thought that at one point in British history, there was something very similar... maybe during the Tudor reign (suspecting internal people of Catholicism and revolt etc)? I don't remember well and will have to look it up.