ITT I edit a new edition of the BIP pamphlet

[AFK]

To me, Rat is describing being aware of the BIP and the cell one occupies within the BIP.  And also, as I've stated in the past, I think some may take the "Prison" part of BIP too literally.  Just because you can't transcend your humanity doesn't necessarily mean you are imprisoned and have a lack of freedom.  It just means that you are human, and that try as you might, you can only get so far within the universe you occupy. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

...and this is usually where we stop.

Ayup

I say that while knowing you see the world with blinders is better than not knowing you have blinders on, it's still not the same as having no blinders on.

blinders != prison.

Blinders provide limited input, but you can move your head and get other limited input. Further, you can act based on the information you have and on the knowledge that you "don't have ALL of the information". In a prison, you're trapped in the limited information sphere that you've created.

Blinders indicate limited perception, but not necessarily 0 freedom; Prison indicate no freedom... and limited perception.

[Cainad (dec.)]

 

OSHIT!

THE METAPHOR IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION, AND BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE ASSOCIATION OF A PHYSICAL CONSTRUCT WITH MENTAL PHENOMENA THERE WILL NEVER BE A CONSENSUS UNTIL ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER GIVES UP AND DECIDES TO USE A DIFFERENT METAPHOR TO DESCRIBE THE PHENOMENON THEY ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH!

WE'RE DOOMED!

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

OSHIT!

THE METAPHOR IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION, AND BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE ASSOCIATION OF A PHYSICAL CONSTRUCT WITH MENTAL PHENOMENA THERE WILL NEVER BE A CONSENSUS UNTIL ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER GIVES UP AND DECIDES TO USE A DIFFERENT METAPHOR TO DESCRIBE THE PHENOMENON THEY ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH!

WE'RE DOOMED!

ROFL, that's not what I'm saying...

I simply disagree that a single metaphor is useful in describing the worker drone bee that has no idea the world he sees isn't the world that IS and someone who groks that concept. Both are still bound by the laws of physics and the limitations of human perception... but calling that a prison seems absurd to me.

For me, the prison metaphor seems fantastic when referencing the concept of being trapped. Once you can change your perceptions at will though, it no longer seems like a trap to me.

But, I think its a difference in philosophy... I find the conclusion of the PD appropriate to what I'm trying to say:

To this end, we propose that man develop his innate love for disorder, and play with The Goddess Eris. And know that it is a joyful play, and that thereby CAN BE REVOKED THE CURSE OF GREYFACE.

If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity. From that moment of illumination, a man begins to be free regardless of his surroundings. He becomes free to play order games and change them at will. He becomes free to play disorder games just for the hell of it. He becomes free to play neither or both. And as the master of his own games, he plays without fear, and therefore without frustration, and therefore with good will in his soul and love in his being.

If instead that conclusion had been "Even if you figure out what's going on, you'll be no more free than before..." I doubt I would ever have considered the philosophy further.

I spent 23 years in a BiP, where I am now has no resemblance to it whatsoever.

[Cainad (dec.)]

OSHIT!

THE METAPHOR IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION, AND BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE ASSOCIATION OF A PHYSICAL CONSTRUCT WITH MENTAL PHENOMENA THERE WILL NEVER BE A CONSENSUS UNTIL ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER GIVES UP AND DECIDES TO USE A DIFFERENT METAPHOR TO DESCRIBE THE PHENOMENON THEY ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH!

WE'RE DOOMED!

ROFL, that's not what I'm saying...

No, it's what I'm saying. I'm making fun of both of you.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

OSHIT!

THE METAPHOR IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION, AND BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE ASSOCIATION OF A PHYSICAL CONSTRUCT WITH MENTAL PHENOMENA THERE WILL NEVER BE A CONSENSUS UNTIL ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER GIVES UP AND DECIDES TO USE A DIFFERENT METAPHOR TO DESCRIBE THE PHENOMENON THEY ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH!

WE'RE DOOMED!

ROFL, that's not what I'm saying...

No, it's what I'm saying. I'm making fun of both of you.

OH!

Well then, carry on... TITCM!

[Cramulus]

Could we say that the goal of the metaphor is to help people change their Black Iron Prison into a Golden Sphere of Possibility?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Could we say that the goal of the metaphor is to help people change their Black Iron Prison into a Golden Sphere of Possibility?

... or into a Green Pub of Experience, or a Blue Spaceship of Exploration, or a Red Whorehouse of Decadence or any and all of those things based on what they want they desire their reality to be at the time...

It's when they're not choosing what they want their life to be,
that they seem imprisoned to me.

[Verbal Mike]

It's when they're not choosing what they want their life to be,
that they seem imprisoned to me.

I'm thinking I will write a prologue to the pamphlet, in which this here discussion takes place in a bar, paraphrased to a degree, and abridged.

[Adios]

We all have our own definition.

I posted this a while back and still read it once in a while.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=14380.0

[Payne]

We all have our own definition.

I posted this a while back and still read it once in a while.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=14380.0

I always rather liked that one.

[Payne]

Oh, and the constant striving for new metaphors for the construct most of us call the BIP began to bore me a long time ago. At the end of the day, it's going to be a label, and not 'the thing' itself. I'm sure you are aware of that already.

The search for an extra-BIP model of reality is a long, dark, lonely and laregly thankless task. I certainly didn't thank myself for the thought I put into the shrapnel project, specifically the parts that were supposed to link up to the BIP idea itself. It wasn't conclusive in any way, and worst of all it didn't fit.

We'll leave the meaninglessness of it all, the mental masturbation of such a project, to the side for now.

It's MY belief that whatever you want to call it, ultimately you will come back to the prison metaphor. Because as uncomfortable as the idea is to you, or how unfitting it seems that you break free.... into a prison, that's what makes sense.

If you want to break free from the cell, I can think of a lot worse places to break through to than something so cheerily called the GSP. It works for me, and it seems to work for a majority of people in here, and even some of our fans outside this forum. Because, ultimately, there is nothing outside the BIP.

[Adios]

We all have our own definition.

I posted this a while back and still read it once in a while.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=14380.0

I always rather liked that one.

Thank you.

[Adios]

Oh, and the constant striving for new metaphors for the construct most of us call the BIP began to bore me a long time ago. At the end of the day, it's going to be a label, and not 'the thing' itself. I'm sure you are aware of that already.

The search for an extra-BIP model of reality is a long, dark, lonely and laregly thankless task. I certainly didn't thank myself for the thought I put into the shrapnel project, specifically the parts that were supposed to link up to the BIP idea itself. It wasn't conclusive in any way, and worst of all it didn't fit.

We'll leave the meaninglessness of it all, the mental masturbation of such a project, to the side for now.

It's MY belief that whatever you want to call it, ultimately you will come back to the prison metaphor. Because as uncomfortable as the idea is to you, or how unfitting it seems that you break free.... into a prison, that's what makes sense.

If you want to break free from the cell, I can think of a lot worse places to break through to than something so cheerily called the GSP. It works for me, and it seems to work for a majority of people in here, and even some of our fans outside this forum. Because, ultimately, there is nothing outside the BIP.

Yes.

[AFK]

Oh, and the constant striving for new metaphors for the construct most of us call the BIP began to bore me a long time ago. At the end of the day, it's going to be a label, and not 'the thing' itself. I'm sure you are aware of that already.

The search for an extra-BIP model of reality is a long, dark, lonely and laregly thankless task. I certainly didn't thank myself for the thought I put into the shrapnel project, specifically the parts that were supposed to link up to the BIP idea itself. It wasn't conclusive in any way, and worst of all it didn't fit.

We'll leave the meaninglessness of it all, the mental masturbation of such a project, to the side for now.

It's MY belief that whatever you want to call it, ultimately you will come back to the prison metaphor. Because as uncomfortable as the idea is to you, or how unfitting it seems that you break free.... into a prison, that's what makes sense.

If you want to break free from the cell, I can think of a lot worse places to break through to than something so cheerily called the GSP. It works for me, and it seems to work for a majority of people in here, and even some of our fans outside this forum. Because, ultimately, there is nothing outside the BIP.

TITCM