What makes us so different?

[AFK]

I'd like to think that's entirely true, but there is some pressure for sombunal newbs. There are types of behavior and opinion that are basically not tolerated here, and some of the local asshats have a way of making the social pressure very palpable despite the limitations of the medium.
That said, this is much less so than in any comparable group I can think of, and these dynamics are part of the local discourse so at least "we" are aware of it. Peedycom is a pretty cool place, but it is still, unfortunately, inhabited by homo sapiens. There is no escaping this fact.

The biggest bone of contention will be someone coming in with the Pinealist-speak, realizing that despite the domain name we're really not into that, and then continue to do it anyway.  And then, complain about not fitting in, or not be accepted.  Maybe it's a pressure for some, but I would tend to think that perhaps they need that pressure, that perhaps it will bring about a realization that there is more to this whole thing then the superficial, cliche gags. 

It's not so much that we want people to think like us.  Clearly, we often times don't agree with each other so I don't think there is really any sort of consensus on how to think.  The consensus, is To Think. 

[Verbal Mike]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

[Vene]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

I think so, we should make Jesus our personal Lord and Savior.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

TITCM

Sometimes, people that think for themselves may decide "Hey, I like the memes from the PD. I think I will use them and be silly." Sometimes I do. The use of memes doesn't necessarily mean that someone isn't thinking for themselves, does it? It may mean they simply thought up a different answer, or maybe they grokked the funnay in the PD and some spags here didn't. Of course, it may also mean that they aren't thinking for themselves... but what's wrong with that, if its what they want to do?

I think that being choosy about online friends seems fine. If some people don't like pinealists, then they shouldn't pretend that they do. I'm just not sure that its wise to make this some altruistic "We just want them to better themselves... like us" motive (not that I'm accusing RHWN of that, this is just an observation).

[P3nT4gR4m]

It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

If we think for ourselves we can haz moar followers than jesus?

[AFK]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, because it was the argument made by those who fled for EB&G and other locales once the PD06/BIP thing got rolling.  

But, as I argued back then, the fundamental difference is that we aren't prescribing HOW one Thinks for themselves, just, that they think for themselves.  That's different from Christianity and other religions.  Christianity wants you to think like Christians, and then, lay out what that looks like.  

In fact you've probably already seen what happens when someone, intentionally or unintentionally, suggests what a Discordian should do or how a Discordian should act of behave.  I've made the mistake myself.  You get royally beaten about the head by the others, because that's not what we're supposed to be about.  

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, because it was the argument made by those who fled for EB&G and other locales once the PD06/BIP thing got rolling. 

But, as I argued back then, the fundamental difference is that we aren't prescribing HOW one Thinks for themselves, just, that they think for themselves.  That's different from Christianity and other religions.  Christianity wants you to think like Christians, and then, lay out what that looks like. 

In fact you've probably already seen what happens when someone, intentionally or unintentionally, suggests what a Discordian should do or how a Discordian should act of behave.  I've made the mistake myself.  You get royally beaten about the head by the others, because that's not what we're supposed to be about. 

We aren't telling them how to Think For Themselves? Not even a little bit?

[AFK]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, because it was the argument made by those who fled for EB&G and other locales once the PD06/BIP thing got rolling.  

But, as I argued back then, the fundamental difference is that we aren't prescribing HOW one Thinks for themselves, just, that they think for themselves.  That's different from Christianity and other religions.  Christianity wants you to think like Christians, and then, lay out what that looks like.  

In fact you've probably already seen what happens when someone, intentionally or unintentionally, suggests what a Discordian should do or how a Discordian should act of behave.  I've made the mistake myself.  You get royally beaten about the head by the others, because that's not what we're supposed to be about. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, because it was the argument made by those who fled for EB&G and other locales once the PD06/BIP thing got rolling. 

But, as I argued back then, the fundamental difference is that we aren't prescribing HOW one Thinks for themselves, just, that they think for themselves.  That's different from Christianity and other religions.  Christianity wants you to think like Christians, and then, lay out what that looks like. 

In fact you've probably already seen what happens when someone, intentionally or unintentionally, suggests what a Discordian should do or how a Discordian should act of behave.  I've made the mistake myself.  You get royally beaten about the head by the others, because that's not what we're supposed to be about. 

We aren't telling them how to Think For Themselves? Not even a little bit?

How to think =/= what to think

There's a difference between "here's a map" and "use it to go here"

What does happen round here is that if someone arrives at a belief they'll get laid into because beliefs are dumb and the end of thinking.

I believe that with all my heart 

[AFK]

How can you believe that shit? 
[/saw it coming]

[Verbal Mike]

Just because we don't explicitly discuss how one should think for themselves, doesn't mean there isn't any implicit pressure. But again, this place is better off in this respect by leaps and bounds compared to any other place I can compare it with.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I agree with you. But I must also believe that what you're saying is potentially a groupthink thought-pattern that is a mainstay of these boards.
I think these boards are fundamentally just like every other herd of humans, except this herd is united around a beacon that yells "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!", which alleviates many of the ills of herd behavior. The fact that many of us want newcomers to think for themselves is not fundamentally unlike Christians wanting others to Accept Jesus As Their Lord And Savior. It's just that Christianity is antiquated and made of bullshit and fail, and TFY,S! is a concept many of us are proud to stand behind.
Do you see what I'm saying?

Yes, because it was the argument made by those who fled for EB&G and other locales once the PD06/BIP thing got rolling. 

But, as I argued back then, the fundamental difference is that we aren't prescribing HOW one Thinks for themselves, just, that they think for themselves.  That's different from Christianity and other religions.  Christianity wants you to think like Christians, and then, lay out what that looks like. 

In fact you've probably already seen what happens when someone, intentionally or unintentionally, suggests what a Discordian should do or how a Discordian should act of behave.  I've made the mistake myself.  You get royally beaten about the head by the others, because that's not what we're supposed to be about. 

We aren't telling them how to Think For Themselves? Not even a little bit?

How to think =/= what to think

There's a difference between "here's a map" and "use it to go here"

What does happen round here is that if someone arrives at a belief they'll get laid into because beliefs are dumb and the end of thinking.

I believe that with all my heart 

But, aren't we still, in your example, 'handing them a map'?

Just because we don't explicitly discuss how one should think for themselves, doesn't mean there isn't any implicit pressure. But again, this place is better off in this respect by leaps and bounds compared to any other place I can compare it with.

I agree with this comment.

[AFK]

You missed the point.  His point was that we hand them the map but don't tell them how to navigate it.  Additionally, the map isn't a finished product, and we acknowledge that on a persistent basis. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

You missed the point.  His point was that we hand them the map but don't tell them how to navigate it.  Additionally, the map isn't a finished product, and we acknowledge that on a persistent basis. 

Well, firstly... the fact that we can have this sort of discussion and still hang out and LOL afterward, indicates a major difference between "Us" and "THEM". 

However... I guess what I'm saying is "Who the hell are we to hand them "the map"?" How do we know that our map is better than the one that they have? Maybe they've got a useful map that they already came up with, maybe they liked the map that Mal-2 handed them and are using it to do their own navigations, maybe they have five different maps and use whichever one they want, whenever they want.

At any rate, it does seem, to me, that we often presume that a n00b NEEDS our Map, or that their own map is somehow wrong, because it involves 23PINEALOMGZLAWLOFFIVES... yet, that map may be just as useful as ZOMGBiPGSPBlackSwan! to some people.

I'm all for publishing as many maps as we can make of the territory, I'm all for making them freely available and accessible to anyone, I'm all for challenging whatever maps anyone uses (including the BiP and PinealFnords)... but I do think that (at least occasionally) we seem to think that handing someone a map and saying "use this", might be a bit of Group Think.

I think this problem is artifactual though. A year ago, any critique of the BiP or Barstool Experiment seemed likely to be met with "NO YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG"... whereas now, the general response seems much less defensive and more interested in refining the ideas.

In the end, I think our group works hard to abstain from labeling everything and Group Think...

but in the end "We're subject to the programs of the ancient human beings" - Dr Steel. 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I don't think we're guilty of indoctrination, which is what this discussion boils down to. There is definitely pressure to 'think for yourself' around here, but it's a 'sink or swim' kind of pressure. We do manufacture and distribute all kinds of maps, many of which contradict each other. But the pressure isn't applied when people disagree with the prevalent interpretation around here -- we encourage people to join the discussions we have and when they do, we are pretty quick to include those 'foreign' views into our the general considerations.

The pressure is applied when we think somebody is parroting something else (even if the person is just parroting us), or when a person refuses to have two-way communication with others.