Some of Them Knew They were Robots

[Voodoo]

I get most of my existential philosophy from song lyrics and tv commercials

Song: "Free Will" by Rush. 

[Pieces]

 

Alright, this may very well be the stupidest question ever asked on this forum, and may very well be laughed off the boards seeing as how I've only been here a day, but...

What, exactly, is the problem?

Now, I understand we're talking about most people knowing they're on some sort of 'autopilot' for a large part of the day (everyone does it, I'm sure most people here have regular jobs and aren't making explosives in their basement out of human fat). But trying to change the entire social order of the way the human race has operated on for the last goddess-knows-how-many years (Oligarchy for the most part) is a pretty tall order, and in my opinion A) not going to happen anytime soon B) maybe not an entirely good idea.

Now, hear me out. NostalgicBadger pointed out that there's probably a good chance most of us weren't very popular children, and I have a feeling he's right. Why?

Because being an individual is a goddamn tough life, especially as a child. Individuals stand out and get noticed, and the ruling body hates ideas that would counter its rule. If the class clown stands up to the school bully, the bully has two choices ; stand down as the alpha or kick the class clown's ass (two obvious choices, anyways. I mean, he COULD go make himself a sandwich). The body that makes up the mass of the population, in this case his school mates, also have two choices; stand up for the class clown or do nothing (again, two obvious choices. Seeing them break out into a choreographed version of 'Greased Lighting' would be awesome).

Most people do nothing. Why? Because they're lazy or scared.


Now to my point. In most cases I've seen (all anecdotal evidence, by-the-by) the people who are scared and/or willing to stand up to the bully stick together, and yes it's usually all the fantastically odd and weird kids. Everyone else is too lazy and not scared enough to change the way things are, or benefit directly from the bully being in charge. This little group doesn't have the power to change the hearts and minds of everyone at the school. They just bind together and do their own thing, trying to enjoy themselves.

So why help them? Why help the complacent, the apathetic, the leeches that exist? Because what I'm hearing here is a willingness to help people stop being robots and start being individuals. Is it an altruistic drive that lies inside of you? Some sort of sense of good you feel the need to achieve? Why waste your life helping people who may not be grateful, who may not appreciate the sacrifices you've made to help them see clearer. I personally don't get it myself.

Any thoughts? Maybe I'm just a selfish dickhead.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Alright, this may very well be the stupidest question ever asked on this forum, and may very well be laughed off the boards seeing as how I've only been here a day, but...

What, exactly, is the problem?

Now, I understand we're talking about most people knowing they're on some sort of 'autopilot' for a large part of the day (everyone does it, I'm sure most people here have regular jobs and aren't making explosives in their basement out of human fat). But trying to change the entire social order of the way the human race has operated on for the last goddess-knows-how-many years (Oligarchy for the most part) is a pretty tall order, and in my opinion A) not going to happen anytime soon B) maybe not an entirely good idea.

Now, hear me out. NostalgicBadger pointed out that there's probably a good chance most of us weren't very popular children, and I have a feeling he's right. Why?

Because being an individual is a goddamn tough life, especially as a child. Individuals stand out and get noticed, and the ruling body hates ideas that would counter its rule. If the class clown stands up to the school bully, the bully has two choices ; stand down as the alpha or kick the class clown's ass (two obvious choices, anyways. I mean, he COULD go make himself a sandwich). The body that makes up the mass of the population, in this case his school mates, also have two choices; stand up for the class clown or do nothing (again, two obvious choices. Seeing them break out into a choreographed version of 'Greased Lighting' would be awesome).

Most people do nothing. Why? Because they're lazy or scared.


Now to my point. In most cases I've seen (all anecdotal evidence, by-the-by) the people who are scared and/or willing to stand up to the bully stick together, and yes it's usually all the fantastically odd and weird kids. Everyone else is too lazy and not scared enough to change the way things are, or benefit directly from the bully being in charge. This little group doesn't have the power to change the hearts and minds of everyone at the school. They just bind together and do their own thing, trying to enjoy themselves.

So why help them? Why help the complacent, the apathetic, the leeches that exist? Because what I'm hearing here is a willingness to help people stop being robots and start being individuals. Is it an altruistic drive that lies inside of you? Some sort of sense of good you feel the need to achieve? Why waste your life helping people who may not be grateful, who may not appreciate the sacrifices you've made to help them see clearer. I personally don't get it myself.

Any thoughts? Maybe I'm just a selfish dickhead.

Excellent points all around. Also a major reason why I think, if anything, we can hopefully fix some of our own programming or not be as robotic ourselves... But I am far less confident that any major shift will take place among the general population, unless its from robot to drone.

[Pieces]

Excellent points all around. Also a major reason why I think, if anything, we can hopefully fix some of our own programming or not be as robotic ourselves... But I am far less confident that any major shift will take place among the general population, unless its from robot to drone.

Is that a step up or a step down....?

[Cainad (dec.)]

So why help them? Why help the complacent, the apathetic, the leeches that exist? Because what I'm hearing here is a willingness to help people stop being robots and start being individuals. Is it an altruistic drive that lies inside of you? Some sort of sense of good you feel the need to achieve? Why waste your life helping people who may not be grateful, who may not appreciate the sacrifices you've made to help them see clearer. I personally don't get it myself.

Any thoughts? Maybe I'm just a selfish dickhead.

Sacrifices we've made? Screw that; I thought supposed to be having fun with this shit.

Besides, can you imagine how hilarious it would be to have more robots reprogramming themselves?

[Pieces]

Sacrifices we've made? Screw that; I thought supposed to be having fun with this shit.

Besides, can you imagine how hilarious it would be to have more robots reprogramming themselves?

Just saying there's probably a few people on these boards that spend an awful lot of time trying to throw a little disorder out there to solve a 'problem'. The thing about disorder is that you don't know what will come out the other end. If you have no goal in mind, this is a goddamn blast. But if you're trying to solve an issue, or 'problem', with chaos, well, you might be disappointed by what comes out the other end.

p.s Robot reprogramming themselves? The first thing that came to mind was Skynet.

[fomenter]

Sacrifices we've made? Screw that; I thought supposed to be having fun with this shit.

Besides, can you imagine how hilarious it would be to have more robots reprogramming themselves?

Just saying there's probably a few people on these boards that spend an awful lot of time trying to throw a little disorder out there to solve a 'problem'. The thing about disorder is that you don't know what will come out the other end. If you have no goal in mind, this is a goddamn blast. But if you're trying to solve an issue, or 'problem', with chaos, well, you might be disappointed by what comes out the other end.

Maybe disorder/chaos is a win win game choice, if disorder happens and everyone has to step up and think for them self's win if disorder happens and tyranny cracks its whip in response then more become aware of tyranny and struggle against it win . This may work for both social change and self change (replace tyranny with prison bars ) 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Excellent points all around. Also a major reason why I think, if anything, we can hopefully fix some of our own programming or not be as robotic ourselves... But I am far less confident that any major shift will take place among the general population, unless its from robot to drone.

Is that a step up or a step down....?

Traditional sci-fi robots are kind of autonomous and make decisions based on programming, Drones are typically a dumb unit that is under the full control of some spag. 

[LMNO]

Alright, this may very well be the stupidest question ever asked on this forum, and may very well be laughed off the boards seeing as how I've only been here a day, but...

What, exactly, is the problem?

Now, I understand we're talking about most people knowing they're on some sort of 'autopilot' for a large part of the day (everyone does it, I'm sure most people here have regular jobs and aren't making explosives in their basement out of human fat). But trying to change the entire social order of the way the human race has operated on for the last goddess-knows-how-many years (Oligarchy for the most part) is a pretty tall order, and in my opinion A) not going to happen anytime soon B) maybe not an entirely good idea.

It seems that the point of the OP wasn't a desire to change all of society into free-thinking individuals (insert Life of Brian reference here), it was to point out that some individuals fully understand and accept their role as robots.  That they see the Machine™, and they see how their pre-programmed responses feed it, and they don't get that sickening feeling in their stomach, that sort of Dark Enlightenment... they don't see the joke, in other words.  The see it as what IS.  And they go on about their day, feeding the Machine™.

You ask, what's the problem?  The problem is the banality of evil.  A large amount of the horrible shit we do to each other is supported by exactly these kind of people.  If you ever want to know why Bush's popularity spiked the day after he was given the 2004 election, when all that happened is that he was anointed president, it was because of these people, the ones who "support the president" regardless of who he might be.

The whole point being; there's a lot of people out there who, when hearing about BIP and The Machine™ say, "So what?"  They already know.  So your O:M, or your memebomb, or your pamphlet simply won't have any effect whatsoever.

So maybe we should think in a direction that can get through to these people.  At least one of them, maybe two.

I don't think I can change society, but I do think I can help some poor schmuck realize that they are Free®.

[Rumckle]

Well, the way I see it, I am trying to give the truth about the way society works (trying not to sound arrogant here). And personally I think the truth is more important than people's contentment. Also, the way I see it, we aren't trying to bring down the whole social order, we are just trying to, at least, make people realise how the order works, not just believe everything, to think for themselves, this, I believe, won't completely upset society. Also, by helping these people we are helping ourselves, as was noted earlier.

Sure I may be wrong, but it is the folly of humans to push your own beliefs onto other people, if only in your own mind. So I know that my freethinking makes me happy, so it should be the same for others.

Also, I enjoy making some kind of difference, or at least trying to. Just like those people who volunteer, they generally do it because it makes themselves fell good about themselves (or because of a court order).

@LMNO:
I think that our O:Ms, memebombs, etc. could actually help some of those people who know of The Machine or BIP, in giving them ideas to copy our work.

That said, it is rather ineffective, and we do need another way of getting to these people.

How? I'm still not sure, hand out a crazy anarchist kit, complete with left-wing propaganda and home-made explosives, maybe?

[Voodoo]

In a thread similar to this I said "I don't want to change the world, I just want to make the world say WTF?"  That is true, but I would like to help make the world better.

Short of all of those who "Get It"™ moving to a new island nation, I don't think we can ever expect to change society.  Like I said, I believe most people who already know they are Robots™ will fight to keep things how they are. But that doesn't mean we can't have fun!!  I think our GASMs do 2 things, 1) they can startle people into thinking for themselves, and 2) they point out the hipocracy of those who know they are robots.  For the rest of the robots it "[will] not compute.]

You ask, what's the problem?  The problem is the banality of evil.  A large amount of the horrible shit we do to each other is supported by exactly these kind of people.  If you ever want to know why Bush's popularity spiked the day after he was given the 2004 election, when all that happened is that he was anointed president, it was because of these people, the ones who "support the president" regardless of who he might be.

Total fucking agreement. 

America as a society, along with a lot of the world, will let people (including children) starve to death, die horrible deaths of treatable diseases, and live in the streets all in the name of Capitalism and the Free Market.  And 95% of the people who know it is happening and let it happen will say and believe they are "good Christians." 

That is some of the hypocrisy and evil I see.  Any free-thinking person would be appalled, but Robots™ can turn a blind eye, say "isn't that a shame", and go on about their Robot™ lives. 

I don't want the Robots™ to just realize the bell is tolling for them, I want to smack them in the fucking head with the bell.


edit: grammar

[Verbal Mike]

You ask, what's the problem?  The problem is the banality of evil.  A large amount of the horrible shit we do to each other is supported by exactly these kind of people.  If you ever want to know why Bush's popularity spiked the day after he was given the 2004 election, when all that happened is that he was anointed president, it was because of these people, the ones who "support the president" regardless of who he might be.

The whole point being; there's a lot of people out there who, when hearing about BIP and The Machine™ say, "So what?"  They already know.  So your O:M, or your memebomb, or your pamphlet simply won't have any effect whatsoever.

So maybe we should think in a direction that can get through to these people.  At least one of them, maybe two.

I don't think I can change society, but I do think I can help some poor schmuck realize that they are Free®.

Big motherfucking man-hair of win!