Aleister Crowley

[Horab Fibslager]

actually crowley mindfucks no one but himself, and those who are foolish enough to consider his words for more than retarded foolishness for more than a moment.

http://tornasunder.sensibilium.com/text  now contains some of his works and some extra bits.
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tehy don't seem to want toopen after sp2 is installed so if anyon e could reformat them in a mroe up to date file format, it would be greatly appreciated.

edit: fixing link. :P

[Horab Fibslager]

http://tornasunder.sensibilium.com/text/bookoflies.doc
http://tornasunder.sensibilium.com/text/bookofthelaw.doc
http://tornasunder.sensibilium.com/text/magickintheoryandinpractice.doc
http://tornasunder.sensibilium.com/text/magicwithouttears.doc

[LMNO]

i don't think that learning kaballah will make much of his ramble-jamble make more sense.

I dunno... If you at least have a passing knowledge of the Tree of Life, a lot of "the Book of Lies" gets more interesting, at least-- AC used it as one of the structures he built the book around, so you can add another level of puns/jakery/meaning/anti-meaning to it all.

If nothing else, it'll be easier to see the synchro-net if you start learning Kabbalah.

[PopeLoUDICRUCE]

I think anyone who wants a better understanding of Crowley would be well advised to read EYE IN THE TRIANGLE by Israel Regardie. Although Regardie was not taught directly by Crowley he was his secretary for several years. They had a terrible break and Regardie is definitely not a Thelemite but his compassion for what Crowley was trying to do helps dispell much of the B.S. around Crowley. Also Crowley did nothing to Discourage rumors of Satanism and black magic about himself. He seems to have viewed any press coverage as good Press coverage.

[LMNO]

Not to mention, being thought of as a satanist and pure evil weeded out the people who listen to what THEY say.

And who wants a disciple who doesn't question everything they are told?

[EraPassing]

Personally, I think that people who are serious about magic, and who read such authors as Crowley and LeVey, should go buy a really juicy romance novel, instead.
Then maybe put on a nice shirt and go to a social event and actually meet members of the opposite sex instead of casting spells to attract them.

Personally, I think that spells and incantations are for pusses, and that if the "witch" would give him/herself a good talking to, throw off that painfully grotesque "mystique" they're trying (and failing) to cultivate, then they'd find themselves much happier and much more stable people.

[LMNO]

While I respect your opinion Era, I gotta say that it sounds like you've never really read Crowley's stuff, 'specially if your'e lumping him n' LaVey together.

Crowley's techniques were essentially Asian meditative and Tantric practices blended with Occidental scientific method.  Stories about him casting spells are usually exaggerated, and his incantations could more honestly be thought of as identifying and isolating Jungian archetypes.

Not to say that a fluff piece of fiction isn't a nice break every once in a while.

But lumping all of Crowley (and his advocates) into a negative stereotype is a bit unfair.  I know many suave, attractive, and intelligent Thelemites.

LMNO
Not wanting to start a fight.

[EraPassing]

You're right, LMNO - I've only attempted to read Crowley.  I put the book down again very quickly.  I have very little patience for such as that.  I'm not lumping him in with just LeVey, I'm lumping Crowley in with every other mystic that's ever written a book.

I much prefer Eliade.  Or even Campbell, although I think he's a poor second to Eliade.  Which only goes to show that I prefer anthropology to mysticism, but oddly enough, I've learned more about being Wiccan, and about magic, from Eliade than I ever have from any metaphysical author I've ever discovered.
*makes a silly face*
And you'd maybe be surprised at what authors I have read, although I might, possibly, if I feel really generous, deign to admit that I might have soured on the subject after reading Huson's opus of the absurd, "Mastering Witchcraft."  

(Although I have to admit I have found a few interesting sex tips over the years that I never heard of on HBO's Real Sex series.)

No, it's the magic that I sneer at, and I can count on one hand the people I've met who are both magicians, and worthwhile people.  And it was not the magic that made them cool, it was the force of their own personalities, their own love of life.
I'm also willing to bet that, out of all the people on this board who are truly attractive, cool, and also practice magic, that it is not the magic that makes them attractive, and never was.

From Chaos to Wicca, most "magicians" I've met are blustering swaggerers who are clad in a thin illusion of personal power that entirely disappears once you get the nifty jewelry and clothes off of them to reveal a naked, shivering, and scrawny little pretender with precious little self-esteem and practically no common sense.

Me, if I'm going to be an arrogant bitch, I'm by damned going to be an arrogant bitch on my own two feet, without resorting to outre mystics and archaic secret orders like I think I'm Willow Rosenburg, or something.  I've never found a place in my life for magic outside of a religious ritual - I don't understand the need for it or any practical usage for it.  On the other hand, I have seen the destructive consequences that can happen when people start dicking around with magic instead of simply believing that they are already worthwhile people, and carrying on with their lives from a position of inner strength.

The most intelligent, attractive man I've ever met, the one who introduced me to Eliade, never makes any pretense to knowledge that he doesn't actually have.  He thinks he's just a guy; I think he could easily turn me into his willing slave.  

Don't get jealous, Rog

[Malaul]

Mmmmmmmmmmm willing slave

[EraPassing]

Oh, yeah.  
Of the purring-like-a-cat-in-heat, curled-up-around-his-feet, absolutely-no-self-control variety of willing slave.
... yeah.

[Malaul]

Ivebeen in THAT state for months now
and no one wants me as their slave either

whatta sad sad state of affairs
















or lack of affairs anyway

[DJRubberducky]

I much prefer Eliade.

OMG!  I got to read Eliade's The Sacred and the Profane my freshman year of college.  And while I had to sell back nearly all my textbooks *and* sell off my violin for money during my college career, I kept that book.  Still have it.

You dig anthropology, eh?  You might actually be able to read Drawing Down the Moon, then - I've always been intimidated by its size.

[EraPassing]

I much prefer Eliade.

OMG!  I got to read Eliade's The Sacred and the Profane my freshman year of college.  And while I had to sell back nearly all my textbooks *and* sell off my violin for money during my college career, I kept that book.  Still have it.

You dig anthropology, eh?  You might actually be able to read Drawing Down the Moon, then - I've always been intimidated by its size.

I am a humble disciple of Eliade - yes, I have to agree that The Sacred and the Profane, my Bible, should never leave the hands of the person who is wise enough to buy it.  He's way better than Campbell, imo.
I like anthropology texts more than mysticism texts mostly because an anthropologist has an outsider's skepticism and is less inclined to blow smoke up the reader's ass to make themselves seem like an all-wise guru.
I really like the fact that you said "got to read it" instead of "had to read it".  That's how I felt about it, too!

I've read Drawing Down the Moon, actually - it was the book that took my spiritual virginity.  A lot of people sneer at her, but I think that her viewpoint was a lot more humble than many authors who write as though they're the Absolutely Bestest High Priest/ess of Wicca, and DDTM is an awesome place to start for any person who comes to Wicca sideways, like I did, with a whopping dose of suspicion.  
Unfortunately, I loaned my copy of DDTM to a person who called herself my friend, and never got it back, so now I have to eventually pick up another one, which sucks, because the guy who'd owned that particular copy before me had left really kick-ass notes in the margins.

[LMNO]

If I may be so bold Era, what Crowley book was it that you only read a few pages of before casting judgement on his work as a whole?


'Cuz he has a few different writing styles, depending on who he's trying to put one over on.

[EraPassing]

Damned if I remember the name of the book - I didn't actually read it all the way through.  I just remember thinking to myself, "Look, I've already suffered through Huson.  No man has anything to teach that's worth going through all this shit."  And so I put it down and didn't pick it up again.
I'm pretty sure it was one of those books where Crowley deliberately used a lot of obfuscation, though.
You know what made it worse, though?  The guy who owned the book and was selling it had the gall to act as though putting it down was a wise decision, not because it was worthless, but because he didn't think I had the experience and the wit to understand it.
I fucking HATE men like that - the ones who take one look at me and assume I've got more hair than brain.