I got fooled.

[Jenne]

what about gun-toting liberals?

NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
  \

WHY is the tag for that : nigel : (wiffout spaces)?

[East Coast Hustle]

because that's what it was at FC.

it predates the poster known as Nigel by a LONG time.

[Jenne]

ah

[Requia ☣]

in the interest of unity, I have tracked down somebody that nearly everyone can find a reason to hate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reid

[hooplala]

That article fails to mention that Harry Reid is also an original member of the Rocky Horror Picture Show fan club.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

in the interest of unity, I have tracked down somebody that nearly everyone can find a reason to hate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Reid

That pussy?  I don't HATE him.  He isn't WORTHY of my hate.

He is like a garden slug.  The only reason you don't casually step on him is that he'd be an even bigger mess.

[Requia ☣]

That article fails to mention that Harry Reid is also an original member of the Rocky Horror Picture Show fan club.

It's wikipedia.  Fix this.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I love politics, its one of those topics that really shows off our BiP/Reality Tunnel/Subjective Reality Filters.

GWB is not responsible for the Internet Bubble Burst, nor 9/11. These two things hurt the US economy more than anything else in 01/02. Bush further fucked things up by running headlong into ill-planned, expensive wars, while at the same time enacting tax cuts... thus leaving us with a crazy deficit. Though to be honest, we would have had a crazy deficit with these wars, tax cut or no.

To lay the economy on Bush, Clinton or any other president seems shortsighted to me. The economy is far more complex than that sort of simplistic view.

However, to claim that it doesn't matter who the president is, seems to miss one very important lesson from the past 8 years. Under GWB, American citizens were held without trial. Under GWB, non-Americans were held without trial, some of whom were kidnapped and tortured. Under GWB, we invaded a sovereign nation under false pretenses. Under GWB, the PATRIOT ACT was passed. Now, it's possible, that under Gore or Kerry these same things would have happened. However, I think that's probably untrue... both Gore and Kerry have a different frame of reference than GWB, and would not have been so willing to trounce civil liberties and International treaties.

Of course, Al and John could have seriously fucked us in some other manner. Perhaps they would have pulled a Clinton and just fired a couple missiles in the general direction of Osama and left him alone to plan for the future. Maybe they would have raised taxes to help turn America green, and the Internet Bubble, 9/11 and the Housing Bubble would have dropped the bottom out and instead of a recession, we could be looking at a full blown depression. Or, since the GOP was in control of the House and Senate, maybe we would have just had total gridlock, and accomplished nothing over the past 6-8 years.

It's insane, I think, to believe that it doesn't matter which individual is President. All individuals are different and will react differently to challenges. Some reactions are good, some bad... it matters. It's also insane, I think, to believe that it does matter which party is in power. The two parties are extremely close in most of their views and where they differ, there are good arguments for both sides.

From what I've seen, either of the individuals running would be a far better person than GWB as President. McCain, is not GWB II (no matter what the media wants to spew) and Obama isn't the messiah (no matter what FOX wants to spew). Neither of them are the antichrist, neither of them are likely to bring about the downfall of the entire nation and neither of them seem likely to summon Shub-Niggurath, Cthulhu or Yog Sothoth.

McCain, unlike Bush, seems capable of separating rhetoric from sanity. That's why he was against the tax cuts Bush pushed through... tax cuts during war = Stupid.

Obama, unlike Gore and Kerry, has Charisma, presence and (unlike GWB) eloquence. He has experienced life as a normal American, something many of the contenders seem to have never experienced.

McCain is not perfect, he seems set on 'winning' in Iraq, whatever the hell that means. However, I can see the view, that since we fucked up, killed their leader, destroyed their government and their infrastructure... and set a bunch of crazy people loose with plenty of excuses to hate on us, them, anyone... maybe we should clean up the mess we made. I don't know that we can, but I do see the point.

Obama also is not perfect... he's had very little experience and that could be particularly bad... especially with the current situation in Eastern Europe. IIRC, Kennedy's inexperience led to some tense moments a couple decades ago.

More than who the President will be, I have concerns with who the citizenry will be. Political opinions have turned neighbors into enemies. NeoCon, Pinko, Fascist, Nazi... not all that different from Nigger, Kraut, Jap, Chink or Gook.

Latte Liberals and Gun Toting NeoCons are both Americans and are both probably intelligent humans. It's a shame that so many seem to forget that.

<insert smarmy, semi-on-topic response here>

<insert condescension and/or personal insult here>

[Cain]

It's insane, I think, to believe that it doesn't matter which individual is President. All individuals are different and will react differently to challenges. Some reactions are good, some bad... it matters. It's also insane, I think, to believe that it does matter which party is in power. The two parties are extremely close in most of their views and where they differ, there are good arguments for both sides.

From what I've seen, either of the individuals running would be a far better person than GWB as President. McCain, is not GWB II (no matter what the media wants to spew) and Obama isn't the messiah (no matter what FOX wants to spew). Neither of them are the antichrist, neither of them are likely to bring about the downfall of the entire nation and neither of them seem likely to summon Shub-Niggurath, Cthulhu or Yog Sothoth.

McCain, unlike Bush, seems capable of separating rhetoric from sanity. That's why he was against the tax cuts Bush pushed through... tax cuts during war = Stupid.

Obama, unlike Gore and Kerry, has Charisma, presence and (unlike GWB) eloquence. He has experienced life as a normal American, something many of the contenders seem to have never experienced.

McCain is not perfect, he seems set on 'winning' in Iraq, whatever the hell that means. However, I can see the view, that since we fucked up, killed their leader, destroyed their government and their infrastructure... and set a bunch of crazy people loose with plenty of excuses to hate on us, them, anyone... maybe we should clean up the mess we made. I don't know that we can, but I do see the point.

Obama also is not perfect... he's had very little experience and that could be particularly bad... especially with the current situation in Eastern Europe. IIRC, Kennedy's inexperience led to some tense moments a couple decades ago.

More than who the President will be, I have concerns with who the citizenry will be. Political opinions have turned neighbors into enemies. NeoCon, Pinko, Fascist, Nazi... not all that different from Nigger, Kraut, Jap, Chink or Gook.

Latte Liberals and Gun Toting NeoCons are both Americans and are both probably intelligent humans. It's a shame that so many seem to forget that.

False equivalency.  Sounds nice on paper, doesn't match up to the reality of events.

[Jenne]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=183509&title=barack-obama-he-completes-us

"Everytime Barack Obama speaks, an angel has an orgasm..."

[Kai]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=183509&title=barack-obama-he-completes-us

"Everytime Barack Obama speaks, an angel has an orgasm..."

That was beyond ridiculous.

[wade]

Sorry about the disillusionment, Requiem, but what exactly did you expect? Liberal, conservative, it really doesn't matter. By the time you're running for president, you've already been filtered through the party system. The nearest thing to honest politicians are the ones who can fund their own campaigns, or enough at least to run as an independent, but voting for an independent is essentially a waste of a vote anyway. Even if an independent could get elected, he could not get anything passed through the house or senate.

Presidents are figureheads. If you want a real change, start a revolution.

How can you go from saying eitehr party democrat or republican are essentially the same to saying voting for an independant is a waste?

WHAT THE FUCK.

Getting an independant a minority government means one main thing to me, the people actually give a FUCK about waht goes on.   Once tehy are in power as a minority government, they will have an awesome platform for the next election cycle.  ie. LOOK AT THESE FUCKTARDS, THEY AREN'T ALLOWING ANYTHING TO PASS.   vote them out...  which will hopefully cause more fuck tards to give a fuck about government.

[Doktor Howl]

I got fooled by Obama. So help me he seemed right. Obama ran on promises of transparency, and holding accountable those that participated in the raping of our liberties since pretty much before I was born. He had all the right positions on technology and the Patent system. Despite myself, I started to have hope in the system. That things really can change.

Hope tends to addle peoples brains like that.

Since then, I've watched as he gave up his position on campaign finance reform, so that he can rake in the benefit of massive donations, watched as he decided that changing the law to allow widespread wiretapping was more important then ensuring those complicit in the last 20 years of eavesdropping are held accountable.

So I'm back here, to rant into empty cyberspace once more, and to watch and to wait. And when the messiah turns out to be another compromised politician, who will give your money to the rich, and strip away what little rights haven't been taken already; I will laugh.

Remember when people were disappointed by Obama?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[Doktor Howl]

Finally, Roger, I have seen you spam threads for lesser reasons. Hypocrisy is not becoming of you.
Don't edit my posts. Don't be a pussy. If you're going to abuse your mod priveliges, quit fucking around and just ban me. I mean, you can't have Discordians who think differently from yourself running around, can you? Shit no.

It's been 12 years, and I still have no idea what the fuck was going on, or how I was responsible for it.

[rong]

you were the fool