Discordia as a Religion?

[Iron Sulfide]

personally, when it comes to the religious aspect of discordia, i lean towards a mixture of what LHX said approached as a mystery school.

at its very core, they're psychological, or philosophical perspectives and tools that vary enough from what could be considered "normal." however, many are presented as religious tenants and practices.

the latter is what an initiate in a mystery school perceives; the former is the real mystery they are gradually exposed to as they progress.

examples: [classic] law of fives.

my experience with this (perhaps a not-uncommon experience) was, "WTF? that doesn't mean anything!"

then, in a little while, i saw 5's and 23's- a little at first, then spiraling into greater and greater frequency. i didn't know what to think. after more of this, i started to think, "well, the law of fives seems to work. but why?" the mind-journey that i took tip-toed around what eventually came to be my current understanding of the Law: we ultimately project the significance by filtering out other information, thereby increasing the experience of particular information. [somehow, i don't think being told this outright has the same effect as applying it and understanding it after the fact.]

but it was important- for me- that it be viewed somewhere towards the beginning as a religious phenomenon. my path went: skeptical>intrigued>believing>understanding independent of belief. or something.

i've personally found a lot of what i would consider philosophical ideas significant to discordia where others saw religious fluff in the PD. i think a lot of it was dressed that way (a) to discourage people that absolutely need to take it seriously and (b) to loosen the sense of seriousness left in people that didn't need to take it so seriously. of course, if you're accustomed to not needing seriousness, those pieces might seem superfluous. but how about this:

zarathud has to stand on his head to read the pentabarf, suggesting to read it backwards (5>1 instead fo 1>5). that makes the very first command "do not believe what you read," etc... (i don't want to sermonize on the pentabarf here...)

through a religious approach, i have been able to see religiously influenced parts of my life i would have otherwise been oblivious to. as that religious approach emancipates into a philosophical one, then i see philosophically influenced aspects of myself that i would have otherwise been oblivious to.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

personally, when it comes to the religious aspect of discordia, i lean towards a mixture of what LHX said approached as a mystery school.

at its very core, they're psychological, or philosophical perspectives and tools that vary enough from what could be considered "normal." however, many are presented as religious tenants and practices.

the latter is what an initiate in a mystery school perceives; the former is the real mystery they are gradually exposed to as they progress.

examples: [classic] law of fives.

my experience with this (perhaps a not-uncommon experience) was, "WTF? that doesn't mean anything!"

then, in a little while, i saw 5's and 23's- a little at first, then spiraling into greater and greater frequency. i didn't know what to think. after more of this, i started to think, "well, the law of fives seems to work. but why?" the mind-journey that i took tip-toed around what eventually came to be my current understanding of the Law: we ultimately project the significance by filtering out other information, thereby increasing the experience of particular information. [somehow, i don't think being told this outright has the same effect as applying it and understanding it after the fact.]

but it was important- for me- that it be viewed somewhere towards the beginning as a religious phenomenon. my path went: skeptical>intrigued>believing>understanding independent of belief. or something.

i've personally found a lot of what i would consider philosophical ideas significant to discordia where others saw religious fluff in the PD. i think a lot of it was dressed that way (a) to discourage people that absolutely need to take it seriously and (b) to loosen the sense of seriousness left in people that didn't need to take it so seriously. of course, if you're accustomed to not needing seriousness, those pieces might seem superfluous. but how about this:

zarathud has to stand on his head to read the pentabarf, suggesting to read it backwards (5>1 instead fo 1>5). that makes the very first command "do not believe what you read," etc... (i don't want to sermonize on the pentabarf here...)

through a religious approach, i have been able to see religiously influenced parts of my life i would have otherwise been oblivious to. as that religious approach emancipates into a philosophical one, then i see philosophically influenced aspects of myself that i would have otherwise been oblivious to.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

On a serious note, I think there could be more religion in Discordianism than there is, or at least we could frame some elements of it in a religious tone. For example O:M could be seen as a sacrament or ritual that actually produces results. In my IRL experience moreso than online, the act of O:M is useful not only to potentially free a person's brain from its programming, but to help yours stay more free. The thrill of O:M is one reward, and it also become easier to stay outside the programming if you keep it up.

The problem is that calling it a ritual or sacrament might lead to making it formulaic like any other ritual, and what should be an exciting act could become a chore that you do mindlessly, resulting in no net gain for you.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A lot of Discordians who don't post here treat it much more like a religion.

[Jasper]

A lot of Discordians who don't post here treat it much more like a religion.

Lucky us Discordia isn't a consensus. 

[Bu🤠ns]

framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone.  You're essentially giving an act 'significance.'  then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.'  Not bad, that.  If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly.  thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'

[Kai]

framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone.  You're essentially giving an act 'significance.'  then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.'  Not bad, that.  If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly.  thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'

+2 vs law?

[Jasper]

framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone.  You're essentially giving an act 'significance.'  then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.'  Not bad, that.  If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly.  thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'

+2 to fuck socks.

Amendments were necessary.

[Kai]

framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone.  You're essentially giving an act 'significance.'  then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.'  Not bad, that.  If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly.  thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'

+2 to fuck socks.

Amendments were necessary.

[Bu🤠ns]

 

[Iron Sulfide]

On a serious note, I think there could be more religion in Discordianism than there is, or at least we could frame some elements of it in a religious tone. For example O:M could be seen as a sacrament or ritual that actually produces results. In my IRL experience moreso than online, the act of O:M is useful not only to potentially free a person's brain from its programming, but to help yours stay more free. The thrill of O:M is one reward, and it also become easier to stay outside the programming if you keep it up.

The problem is that calling it a ritual or sacrament might lead to making it formulaic like any other ritual, and what should be an exciting act could become a chore that you do mindlessly, resulting in no net gain for you.

one idea i had about the "fer srsly" rituals in the PD was that by seriously practicing a ritual (for someone who is soooo religious, i.e. non-discordant) someone is presented with:

blasphemy/taboo: for those of you haven't experienced religious taboo/weren't raised initially with strong religious backgrounds, performing a blasphemy to a core value is an event that can cause fracture. by, for example, an initiate raised as a devout catholic- eating a hotdog on friday can be strange, or shouting "Flying Babyshit!" during a baptism, or "cursing" someone with the turkey curse... these rituals bring old conditioning to the forefront of the initiate's awareness ("i can't eat a hot dog...it's friday fer chissake!") creating a moment of cognitive dissonance.

some things that might be felt as a result are: fear; guilt; curiosity; intrigue; silliness; etc...

to what degree a person feels this, and what exactly they feel, one may be able to gauge the extent to which old dogmas and memes are present, and what their strength currently is.

With this arena, static rituals are already in place with the PD (i personally wouldn't do very many of them todays), so one could consider OM to be initiation to and practice of the "Dynamic Mysteries" of our Living Religion.

just a thought.

[The Dark Monk]

Maybe it comes down to
How do I see religion? Do I see something religious as a ritual I do in every day life?
Does it have to include a god(s)?
There of course, is the concrete definition of religion but most people have their own perspective on what it is.
Whether Discordia is a religion in itself or not, you'll have to decide for yourself, maybe how much it pertains to your life in general. Some people call that religion.
I say, if you choose to "worship" Discordia, be my guest. Power to you. Eris knows we can always use more insight or a different perspective.
Discordia just happens to be the way I think, and fits very well with my personality.
I see it as more of a "Guideline to open mindedness and sexual promescuity towards ancient deities"

[shadowfurry23]

 I think that one of the reasons for the staying power of the PD is the religious angle, particularly that of a religion that you can belong to without ever having to meet another... umm....  well, anyone.  With that in mind, I think that you should utilize the religious angle in any work that seeks to build off the PD.

What's more, it's easier to sell Enlightenment as a 'religion' than a 'philosophy'; take for example the fact that Buddhism is thought of as a religion when its really more of a philosophy at its core.

Personally, I consider myself a Discordian (or Erisian, I use the terms interchangably) and will cheerfully explain that it is my religion to anyone that asks about my religion, or anyone I think I can amuse and/or fuck with (e.g. Mormons and Witnesses - I love talking to those guys). 

  I don't believe in an interventionist god (I think of prayer as generally a waste of time and potentially dangerous, though I do occasionally indulge) but I've decided that I do believe that there is a god, and what's more that god loves me much the way my mom loves me.  This is how I've explained it to my son: Eris loves you all the time, just like mommy loves you - even when you can't see her she still loves you.  Discordianism gives me something to hang that belief on.  Also the idea that chaos and creativity are the sources of greatness in life as opposed to laws and conformity is obvious to anyone who bothers to look around.

So I'm passing this on to my son as well - I'm teaching him that when people say God, what it means is Eris.  In part this is because he joined Beavers this year (a Canadian pre-Cub Scouts thing, most amusing) and part of that is the Beaver Promise: "I promise to love God and help take care of the world," - as a result I had to explain God.  Well, I didn't *have* to since he's 7 and autistic and just repeating the words anyway, but I wanted to.

For many years I performed the Sacrament Of The Mismatched Socks.  I'm teaching my kiddo that that's cool too. 

Anyway, yeah - I dig on Discordia-as-religion.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I love Discordia-as-religion because it really, really annoys some people who find it "disrespectful" to have a "religion" you don't take seriously, and who can't wrap their heads around the beautiful contradictions of a joke religion that's not a religion or a joke. Telling these people that it's not a serious religion but that I take it seriously usually upsets them.

I don't know. I think I might be in it because it's funny, but I think funny is sacred.

I agree with Cram's view of Eris not as an entity, but as a force. The entity "Eris" is an archetype that represents the force.

I agree with this idea. I also think that it's quite a mindfuck in itself to have a religion for which piety is being impieous towards everything -- belief in discordiansim is disbelief in everything, including discordianism. This is a nice antidote to the odd caveats of popular logocentrism that eschew quines, strange loops, and seeming self-contradiction. This is one of the reasons I consider the Pentabarf to be one of the things it's necessary to keep, in some form -- in a very veiled way, it's a summation of the entire POV.

If I were to try and update the pentabarf, it'd probably be something like this:

"1) Chaos causes order causes chaos, and thou shalt have no other goddess before her, except sometimes.
2) It is forbidden to believe anything.
3) You are required not to eat hot dog buns.
4) You are required not to obey.
5) You are required to eat a hotdog bun every friday before breakfast."