Paradigm shift

[East Coast Hustle]

agreed.

however, people who think that it's even possible to experience oneness with the universe are deeply deluded.

acid or no acid.

[fomenter]

[Cain]

Hey, can I be one of the cool enlightened kids if I experience oneness with the Universe as well?

[East Coast Hustle]

probably, if by "enlightened" you mean "needs to shower".

[Kai]

agreed.

however, people who think that it's even possible to experience oneness with the universe are deeply deluded.

acid or no acid.

I think you can experience oneness with the universe.

I just don't think its anything like the experience that most people envision.

In fact, I think its rather normal, and ordinary. Most people don't even realize its happening.

Sorry I can't describe it further than that. I do know it has nothing to do with drugs though.

Kai,

Being a bit nonsciency for once. (on an off mood today perhaps?)

[Elder Iptuous]

ECH, I'm reminded of the scene in Fear n' Loathing where Thompson refers to the fellow that he figures will 'forever be afraid of walking into bathrooms to find strange men getting kicks on things that he will never experience....' (not to say that i assume you have never experienced them, just what popped into my head)
yeah, maybe they're dirty hippies, and maybe they're deluding themselves is a sense, but so what, why the antagonism? It comes across as sour grapes.....  Did you have a negative experience, or lose a friend to hallucinogens?

[Kai]

ECH, I'm reminded of the scene in Fear n' Loathing where Thompson refers to the fellow that he figures will 'forever be afraid of walking into bathrooms to find strange men getting kicks on things that he will never experience....' (not to say that i assume you have never experienced them, just what popped into my head)
yeah, maybe they're dirty hippies, and maybe they're deluding themselves is a sense, but so what, why the antagonism? It comes across as sour grapes.....  Did you have a negative experience, or lose a friend to hallucinogens?

Hes just tired of people coming in here and spouting that hallucinogens are not only the greatest thing ever but are the gateway to enlightenment/god/whatever.

Its like me and "Darwinism". Triggers, yah know?

[Elder Iptuous]

Ah....
I see.
I need a good trigger.  Is there anything that gets mentioned by unsuspecting new people frequently that hasn't been called dibs on?

[Kai]

Not really. Its like Rule 34.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Heh, ECH, don't knock it till you try it.  

I think oneness with the universe is just a bunch of words that some people use to describe an experience that they have no better words for. I have experienced something that could be described as "Oneness With The Universe" in the sense that it felt similar to what other people have described as that... does it mean I was actually one with the Universe, or that I and the Universe were in perfect sync? Hell no, its just  a hippie term that describes a common experience on hallucinogens.

I've experienced the same kind of feeling in rituals and meditation, but my first and strongest experience was on LSD... "oneness with the universe" sums up how I remember it and how I recall it feeling.

That being said, there are a lot of people that can't seem to separate the experience from the label that their brain stuck on it... and those people often seem to be deluded assholes that need to shower.

[Kai]

Heh, ECH, don't knock it till you try it. 

I think oneness with the universe is just a bunch of words that some people use to describe an experience that they have no better words for. I have experienced something that could be described as "Oneness With The Universe" in the sense that it felt similar to what other people have described as that... does it mean I was actually one with the Universe, or that I and the Universe were in perfect sync? Hell no, its just  a hippie term that describes a common experience on hallucinogens.

I've experienced the same kind of feeling in rituals and meditation, but my first and strongest experience was on LSD... "oneness with the universe" sums up how I remember it and how I recall it feeling.

That being said, there are a lot of people that can't seem to separate the experience from the label that their brain stuck on it... and those people often seem to be deluded assholes that need to shower.

I think feeling oneness is just a sort of deep connection to an object or phenomenon, and since the universe is anything and everything we can interact with, it leaves it broad open for whatever sort of object or phenomenon you have that connection with. A person, a place, an activity. I'm sure it happens all the time with people who have kids.

Like I said, its not unusual or unordinary. It barely gets recognized. It doesn't even have to have calmness accompany, though there probably is some sort of focused understanding involved.

[East Coast Hustle]

ECH, I'm reminded of the scene in Fear n' Loathing where Thompson refers to the fellow that he figures will 'forever be afraid of walking into bathrooms to find strange men getting kicks on things that he will never experience....' (not to say that i assume you have never experienced them, just what popped into my head)
yeah, maybe they're dirty hippies, and maybe they're deluding themselves is a sense, but so what, why the antagonism? It comes across as sour grapes.....  Did you have a negative experience, or lose a friend to hallucinogens?

please to re-read the part where I said that I enjoyed hallucinogenics as much as the next guy.

for a long time, I enjoyed them MUCH more than the next guy.

I also think they can be a valuable tool for self-analysis and for learning how to think more flexibly.

but the idea that the acid itself somehow provides this insight to you without you having to work for it is like saying that picking up a t-square and a nail gun will make you know how to build a house.

[Elder Iptuous]

right-o....
after Kai mentioned that it's just a trigger, and i went back and re-read the post like a good boy, i realized this.  I was just struck by the caps lock and adamance, i guess.
Although i have 'claimed' discordianism for about a dozen years or so, i've never really associated with any others.  I guess a forum like this would attract ninnies such as described here quite a bit.
aaaaaaanyways....

[Janvier]

It was a long read, but thanks, you guys are awesome. I do believe in oneness with the universe, btw, I'm experiencing it right now. Oh, and here's something you guys might appreciate (I picked up somewhere you were working on an afterlife for Discordianism):

Memetic reincarnation is the concept that through the strength of their rhetoric, some men are able to hijack the impressionable (or perhaps drug-addled) mind,
and continue their work shaping history. Expand this to include the fact that all people have an influence proportional to the strength of their character over the magnitude of their exposure to the subject, and you have a model that encompasses all of consciousness.

This is basically Nietzsche's eternal return in memetic form. Go wild.

[Janvier]

LHC fired up => Hawking finally relinquishes his terrible grapplehold on science => great victory for the Erisian Liberation Front

I mean seriously.

This is just insulting to my intelligence.