To crap with the Chevy Volt

[Jasper]

The only thing thats gonna make any difference is people changing their lifestyles and we don't even need to talk about that seriously because its not going to happen.

Yeah, it's the only thing that'll make a difference.  Not that having congress pass initiatives on clean energy requirements for industry or funding research and green collar startups would help.  And retrofitting airplanes with algal biofuel would be just plain pointless.

[East Coast Hustle]

you need to get a little more science in you before you keep advancing that argument as anything other than an extremely-far-in-the-future idea.

there's a reason we use petroleum products for fuel. We have yet to find anything else that even comes CLOSE to providing the same mix of stability and energy-to-mass ratio. And until we do, taxing the fuck out of industry when there's no reasonable alternative for them to manufacture their products cost-effectively is only going to hit us in our own pockets. Realism is needed here, not sci-fi idealism.

[Jasper]

Your argument is valid for a fairly recent reference date.  However:

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/12/23/2919/8613

[Golden Applesauce]

Nobody's figured out a way to in practice grow algae fuel more cheaply than gas.  Bioreactors are freaking expensive; open pond systems get overrun by less productive strains of algae.  The strains that grow the fastest have a terrible oil content, and vice versa.  Heck, nobody's figured the optimum amount of stirring yet.  Or even a really good way to extract the oil on a large scale.

Algae farming and hydroculture in general has a lot of catching up to do before we understand it as well as agriculture.  Not that we won't; but I'm guessing 10-15 years or so before we start seeing algal oil production with any real degree of success.  It will probably take some creative breeding or gene splicing to get algae that has high oil content, grows quickly, and beats the pants off of competing strains in the battle for system resources.

[Jasper]

http://earth2tech.com/2008/03/27/15-algae-startups-bringing-pond-scum-to-fuel-tanks/

Do try to keep up.

[Golden Applesauce]

http://earth2tech.com/2008/03/27/15-algae-startups-bringing-pond-scum-to-fuel-tanks/

Do try to keep up.

Solazyme seems to be the only one with any actual production.  I'll admit, I haven't heard of the no-sunlight route to grow plants.

All the others are either "planning to" or have "agreed to" make algae oil.  It's the trendy thing to invest in, but the technology just isn't quite there yet.  The investments in those companies might produce the knowledge and expertise necessary to actually do it later - but not know.

[Jasper]

http://www.greenfuelonline.com/deployments.html

They've gotten their technology out there too.

And green energy isn't "trendy"; it's inevitable and forward thinking investors know it.  The technology exists, in fact, they've even developed an algal ethanol that can power jets.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004442245_berlinairshow28.html

So please to not be telling me these things would be nice if they existed, and please do not be dissing my lack of solid science education because I'm an undergrad.  These technologies exist, work, and are profitable.

[Kai]

I've known about the algae oil since phycology in sophmore year of undergrad.

My money is on switchgrass.

[Cramulus]

is that the grass that generates power via the sun?

I saw a guy talk about that on Colbert - said if once their project is done, if they covered the roof of every walmart in the USA with their grass contraption, they would already be producing more power than all the nuke plants in the US.






_{facts possibly misquoted due to drunkenness, human error}

[Kai]

is that the grass that generates power via the sun?

I saw a guy talk about that on Colbert - said if once their project is done, if they covered the roof of every walmart in the USA with their grass contraption, they would already be producing more power than all the nuke plants in the US.






_{facts possibly misquoted due to drunkenness, human error}

Its cellulosic ethanol production from a highly tolerant genus of grasses (Panicum) that can be grown nearly anywhere. Highway centerstrips, mall roofs, farming land that is not viable for things like corn and wheat. Doesn't require anything but seeding the ground and harvesting when the plants are ready, no irrigation, no pesticides, no fertilizer.

Also, all grasses generate "power" via the sun. Its kinda what plants do. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You think my scooter gets 120 miles per tank?  It's efficient and all, I only spend 3 dollars on fuel a week or so, but it only holds 5 litres or so.

...

What is your point?

That, regardless of how you decide to power them, scooters are not long range vehicles. 

And yeah, not being able to plug in is a handicap.

There ought to be some sort of social network where people willing to let you plug your all-electric for a small amount of money arrange to help each other out.

Does it take you six hours to fill your scooter's gas tank when you stop at the gas station?

My point was that it seems like they made a big tradeoff in battery life for speed, when the speed is much, much less relevant for most scooter users than battery life.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

you guys are missing the obvious point about electric vehicles.

WHERE IS THE FUCKING ELECTRICITY COMING FROM?

OH, THAT'S RIGHT. PROBABLY OIL OR COAL. BUT AT LEAST YOU'LL GET TO HAVE A FALSE SENSE OF ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY AND AN OVERWHELMING AND UNJUSTIFIED SMUGNESS.

Actually I'm well aware of that already, ECH.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

you guys are missing the obvious point about electric vehicles.

WHERE IS THE FUCKING ELECTRICITY COMING FROM?

OH, THAT'S RIGHT. PROBABLY OIL OR COAL. BUT AT LEAST YOU'LL GET TO HAVE A FALSE SENSE OF ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSIBILITY AND AN OVERWHELMING AND UNJUSTIFIED SMUGNESS.

Or Wind. Or Solar. Or Hydroelectric. Or Nuclear. Or Geothermal. Or Wave Power.

Granted, we aren't doing that stuff as much as we should be. We need to just fucking stop with the fossil fuels already. Just pretend like they are going to completely disappear in 20 years.

Also, it is a more efficient way to get the energy from fossil fuels

It COULD be, that is.

[Jasper]

Does it take you six hours to fill your scooter's gas tank when you stop at the gas station?

My point was that it seems like they made a big tradeoff in battery life for speed, when the speed is much, much less relevant for most scooter users than battery life.

The SUMO isn't a scooter.  The scooter they're selling is at the end of the video.  90MPH is low-end average for a motorbike these days.

I'll admit that it's not going to end gasoline use.  Far from it.  But if people are using something like this for in-city short hops (which get you lower MPG), then it's a legitimate way to curb fuel consumption.

Like I said before, an electric vehicle can't solve the problem entirely, but the problem can't be solved without non-fossil burning options. 

There is just no way one technology can stop fossil fuel reliance, much less reverse any of the damage.

[East Coast Hustle]

http://www.greenfuelonline.com/deployments.html

They've gotten their technology out there too.

And green energy isn't "trendy"; it's inevitable and forward thinking investors know it.  The technology exists, in fact, they've even developed an algal ethanol that can power jets.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004442245_berlinairshow28.html

So please to not be telling me these things would be nice if they existed, and please do not be dissing my lack of solid science education because I'm an undergrad.  These technologies exist, work, and are profitable.

OK then....where are they?