Author Topic: Is money private property?  (Read 9037 times)

Cain

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2012, 10:51:14 pm »
Not that the Treasury really has anything to fear.  It's an axiom of economics that bad money drives out good.

It's why social democracy is a doomed project: the current system crashes even more often, but it generates lots of money in the mean-time, and that money buys influence and power and pressures other nations to follow suit.  Economic race to the bottom.

This is why, in theory, we have international frameworks and agreements on trade.  Except they've been ruined by economic illiterates and free-loaders like Apple, and people who think foreign treaties are Satan.

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2012, 03:11:56 am »
Michael Ende, author of "The Never Ending Story" (in German, not English) had some interesting discussions about money in his book "Fantasy/Culture/Politics". He came from the standpoint of communal ownership (using the same fiat framing), observing that healthy economies rely on currency being circulated, like blood through veins. Some of his ideas were odd, though, but perhaps applicable- like printing money with an expiration date to discourage hoarding.

As far as it being personal or private property, I don't think it is. It's definitely not a personal property, since the bills are owned by the FED, and the debt is owned by the GOV'T (which, in turn, is now "OUR" debt).

It certainly isn't used very much as a public property, or a resource, as much as I can tell, either. So I'm not sure what exactly I would call it.

On a tangent:
Quote from: About M. Ende Page
1984:
Michael Ende sees the film Die unendliche Geschichte (The Neverending Story) and is shocked. Furiously he has his name removed from the project.

1985:
On 3 February, the commissioned opera Der Goggolori (The Goggolori) has its successful premier at the Münchner Staatstheater am Gärtnerplatz. Wilfried Hiller wrote the music. On 27 March Michael Ende’s wife Ingeborg Hoffmann dies of pulmonary embolism, after having seen the film version of unendlichen Geschichte (The Neverending Story). Michael Ende returns to Munich.
:lulz: :horrormirth:

Hmmm, see, that national debt thing is a really interesting factor.
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Golden Applesauce

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2012, 03:23:33 am »
Chaoflux had this to say on Facebook:

Quote from: Chaoflux
Money is a certificate of debt, as defined by the Federal Reserve, and upheld by bonds ponied up by the government. You can't own it, you can only be someone who controls it or is controlled by it. The Man doesn't take your money away from you, he increases your debt.

When I think of a $10 bill as debt, it means that the rest of the world owes me a debt of $10 worth of sandwiches or whatever.

But I think Chaoflux was getting at something different.  Can you explain?
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Freeky

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2012, 04:33:53 am »
I just calculated how fast I'm losing money, and then I couldn't find it anymore.
I laughed but forgot what at.
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As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


Although it is outside the purview of this organization to offer personal advice, we can say -- without assuming any liability -- that previous experience indicates (and recent market studies corroborate) that given the present condition of the marketplace, continuing with your present course of action is likely to result in substantial in

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2012, 04:39:19 am »


Like, to paraphrase the saying: You can't have your money and buy cake with it too?

If that saying actualy said THAT, it would make a hell of a lot more sense.
If someone does the “Fine, you’re right, I’m clearly a terrible person, I’m Satan, I’m the worst person alive, I should just die” thing in response to criticism of their harmful behavior, they are trying to manipulate people and flip the situation around so that they look like a victim.

As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


Although it is outside the purview of this organization to offer personal advice, we can say -- without assuming any liability -- that previous experience indicates (and recent market studies corroborate) that given the present condition of the marketplace, continuing with your present course of action is likely to result in substantial in

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2012, 09:25:14 am »
But it means almost exactly that, doesn't it?

it's a very confusing phrase until I had it explained to me.
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Telarus

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2012, 11:44:26 am »
Chaoflux had this to say on Facebook:

Quote from: Chaoflux
Money is a certificate of debt, as defined by the Federal Reserve, and upheld by bonds ponied up by the government. You can't own it, you can only be someone who controls it or is controlled by it. The Man doesn't take your money away from you, he increases your debt.

When I think of a $10 bill as debt, it means that the rest of the world owes me a debt of $10 worth of sandwiches or whatever.

But I think Chaoflux was getting at something different.  Can you explain?

I think you're nearly there. The debt comes first (you eat a sandwich). Then the demand to settle the debt comes next.

Money is the simplest thing we carry around that will settle debt.

I think Terry Pratchet's "Making Money" book will prove useful here as well. While you control those $10, the banksters control is largely "at another scope" than yours, and they've got control over thousands of mortgages, car-loans, student loans, credit card accounts, etc, etc. This is all fueled by the interest payments, and the advertising. They use advertising to initiate a desire in you, and then offer an easy way for you to settle that desire (credit), which in turn, makes you part of a "financial product" that they move around like a monopoly piece to extract the most profit from. Nearly all of those insidious methods which the System/the Spider uses to ensure that we are dependent on the System involve leashing you through debt. Woe be to those who break the holy rules of the Big 3 (credit reporting agencies) for they shall be cast from the temple.
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Cain

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2012, 12:16:06 pm »
Historically, this was referred to as "rent-seeking activity", and was compaired negatively to productive economic activity, not least because rent-seeking was usually the preserve of feudal landowners, and did not result in greater numbers of products, but rather was brought about due to near-monopolistic control of a necessary resource.

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2012, 04:03:50 pm »
Money is not private property, its bits of inexpensive paper or tiny amounts of metal that the government deems to be of worth and has nearly all control over it. You think its private property because you own it but you don't, If this was true then you would decide the deemed worth of it and not be required to pay or transact money because it is yours. Things for barter are private property because it is a civil exchange of private property.

Essentially in one fell swoop the government could push up inflation so high by simply gushing out money, and make all yours worthless leaving them free to do whatever they want because they hold all the valuable things that people today have become so accustomed to depending on for all of their daily functions leaving those in charge of the amassed wealth free to do as they see fit.

So no, no it isn't.

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Re: Is money private property?
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2012, 04:11:43 pm »
Money is not private property, its bits of inexpensive paper or tiny amounts of metal that the government deems to be of worth and has nearly all control over it. You think its private property because you own it but you don't, If this was true then you would decide the deemed worth of it and not be required to pay or transact money because it is yours. Things for barter are private property because it is a civil exchange of private property.

Essentially in one fell swoop the government could push up inflation so high by simply gushing out money, and make all yours worthless leaving them free to do whatever they want because they hold all the valuable things that people today have become so accustomed to depending on for all of their daily functions leaving those in charge of the amassed wealth free to do as they see fit.

So no, no it isn't.

See, this is a reasonably intelligent post which appears to exist for purposes other than attention-seeking. If you keep this up and consistently minimize the trolling and attention-whoring, I'll probably start interacting with you again.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”