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What do you REALLY believe?

Started by Cramulus, October 21, 2008, 03:23:51 PM

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Which of the following best describes what you Actually Believe about the Deity?

I worship some variation of the Christian / Jewish / Muslim God
Buddhist / Taoist / Eastern somethingorother
Agnostic -  I couldn't possibly know
Atheist - I believe in no gods
I believe in Eris as an entity but do not follow other Gods
I believe Eris is one of many Gods
I prefer not to define myself
I don't give a fuck about all that stuff
Something else not on this list

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Cramulus on October 21, 2008, 04:52:38 PM


Basically, I've been thinking about the growing category of "irreligious" people. More "joke" religions (like the Church of Google, or Tarvu-ism) are showing up every day. To some extent, they're silly jokes. But many of them have, at their core, people who buy into that (perhaps satirical) worldview.

I would distinguish these people's beliefs from actual religious beliefs - I'm using that word "irreligious", because it's tongue in cheek, but it represents a serious point. For example, the FSM spags are all about the creation/evolution debate - few of them actually believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but they use that framework to explain the point they're trying to make. If you asked them to fill out a religious survey, what box would they check? That's what I'm exploring, and here's why:


These data will help us investigate whether the word "irreligious" is actually a good umbrella term for these things*, or if most Discordians/Pastafarians/Googlites are just atheists and agnostics in disguise.





*read: "You people"  :p

My uninformed guess:

Most, but not all, Pastafarians and Googlites etc will likely lean Atheist, some will lean Agnostic and a few will claim some other system of belief.

Some, but not all, Discordians will likely lean Atheist, some will lean Agnostic and more than the above group will claim some other system of belief.

That is... if I were betting on this kind of thing ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Eater of Clowns

Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 04:26:11 PMWe're all intelligent people here, we all know roughly what we believe and what the choices we were given mean.  We also have the space to give exposition below, should we feel it necessary.  Your passive-aggressive whining over not having a Special Hugbox Designed Just For You (Because You're A Unique And Wondeful Snowflake) is boring.  If you're going to be a dick simply because, at least be honest about it.

For example, I am a dickweed.  You're talking to a dickweed. Does a cobbler not make shoes? Does a horse-trainer not train horses?

This weed in my dick; I like this weed. Why do I eat of it? Because it is my dick, and because it is bitter.

But I at least have the self-control not to let it show because a poll on the internet did not express my Special Uniquness perfectly.

This is positively inspirational.

Behold, beings of the world, ye who stand beside me upon this, our Earth!  I have partaken in a bitter herb, one which doth sprout from mine very own genitalia!  Dickweed thus am I, and Dickweed ye shall become should you graze with me the Field of the Wangus!

Yet beware of imposter Dickweeds, those who claim to have feasted of mine crotch growth but have instead been engorged with a lesser substance!  The Dickweed they shall neither consume nor smoke, yet smoke they shall of my Pole, such is the retribution taken upon those who have wronged me.


Oh, and I chose I prefer not to label myself.  I was raised staunchly Catholic, which in spite of having shaken off for almost 10 years I can't help but revert back to if only for the purposes of language (God Damnit, Jesus Fucking Christ, etc.).  Sometimes I'm Atheist in not believing anything and sometimes I think there is Something Bigger and Indescribable that We Just Aren't Capable of Understanding, Which Has No Agenda Yet Somehow Acts as Something We All Have In Common (I call this concept SBIWJACUWHNAYSASWAHIC).

Religion is like a Smorgasbord to be sampled at will.
Quote from: Pippa Twiddleton on December 22, 2012, 01:06:36 AM
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2014, 01:18:23 AM
EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

Cain

Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 04:26:11 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 04:13:53 PM
I didn't mean to be an asshole... just after lots and lots of debate over the years, I don't think that my ideas fit with either of the 'a' options. I didn't intend to be an asshole and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

We're all intelligent people here, we all know roughly what we believe and what the choices we were given mean.  We also have the space to give exposition below, should we feel it necessary.  Your passive-aggressive whining over not having a Special Hugbox Designed Just For You (Because You're A Unique And Wondeful Snowflake) is boring.  If you're going to be a dick simply because, at least be honest about it.

For example, I am a dickweed.  You're talking to a dickweed. Does a cobbler not make shoes? Does a horse-trainer not train horses?

This weed in my dick; I like this weed. Why do I eat of it? Because it is my dick, and because it is bitter.

But I at least have the self-control not to let it show because a poll on the internet did not express my Special Uniquness perfectly.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when Cram said "If I'm missing poll options, let me know." he meant "If you offer any other options, you're a dick". If I'd ranted about it for multiple posts about how wrong it was or how evil or how stupid cram was... then I'd see your point. As it is, I disagree that I was being a dick. As soon as Cram said "I don't want to get that granular", I added my vote to the poll. Should I just smile and nod from now on, rather than actually say anything?

Oh, you weren't arguing in bad faith and just for the sake of it?

Makes a first.

No, I was not arguing in bad faith, just for the sake of it. I personally think there's a fundamental difference between atheism, agnosticism and model agnosticism. To wit, Agnostics and Atheists make observations about their view of the question of God. Model Agnosticism makes observations about views on concepts of belief...

More like a metasystem than a system... does that make sense?

In other words, you are not even explaining what you believe, but instead talking about a process which explains the "how" of belief instead of the "what".

ie; exactly what was asked about.

Well done, you are both off topic and pointlessly shit-stirring.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 05:02:46 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 04:26:11 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 04:13:53 PM
I didn't mean to be an asshole... just after lots and lots of debate over the years, I don't think that my ideas fit with either of the 'a' options. I didn't intend to be an asshole and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

We're all intelligent people here, we all know roughly what we believe and what the choices we were given mean.  We also have the space to give exposition below, should we feel it necessary.  Your passive-aggressive whining over not having a Special Hugbox Designed Just For You (Because You're A Unique And Wondeful Snowflake) is boring.  If you're going to be a dick simply because, at least be honest about it.

For example, I am a dickweed.  You're talking to a dickweed. Does a cobbler not make shoes? Does a horse-trainer not train horses?

This weed in my dick; I like this weed. Why do I eat of it? Because it is my dick, and because it is bitter.

But I at least have the self-control not to let it show because a poll on the internet did not express my Special Uniquness perfectly.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when Cram said "If I'm missing poll options, let me know." he meant "If you offer any other options, you're a dick". If I'd ranted about it for multiple posts about how wrong it was or how evil or how stupid cram was... then I'd see your point. As it is, I disagree that I was being a dick. As soon as Cram said "I don't want to get that granular", I added my vote to the poll. Should I just smile and nod from now on, rather than actually say anything?

Oh, you weren't arguing in bad faith and just for the sake of it?

Makes a first.

No, I was not arguing in bad faith, just for the sake of it. I personally think there's a fundamental difference between atheism, agnosticism and model agnosticism. To wit, Agnostics and Atheists make observations about their view of the question of God. Model Agnosticism makes observations about views on concepts of belief...

More like a metasystem than a system... does that make sense?

In other words, you are not even explaining what you believe, but instead talking about a process which explains the "how" of belief instead of the "what".

ie; exactly what was asked about.

Well done, you are both off topic and pointlessly shit-stirring.


Yep, that's exactly it Cain. Gosh, you're so smart.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Elder Iptuous

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on October 21, 2008, 04:25:18 PM
I think pantheism is covered by "I worship Eris among many other gods", even if you don't actually worship Eris.

perhaps you think pantheism is the affirmation of all gods?  nono.  it is the defining an equivalence between the universe at large and god.

also:
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 05:02:46 PM
Well done, you are both off topic and pointlessly shit-stirring.

Payne

Quote from: Iptuous on October 21, 2008, 05:37:30 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 05:02:46 PM
Well done, you are both off topic and pointlessly shit-stirring.


Bullshit. Cain isn't stirring the shit, he's pointing out someone else who is stirring shit. There is a significant difference rite thar.


singer

There really isn't anything on the list that would incorporate possible panentheistic permutations... however broadly you would want to define the option.  So I resort to "other".

But, based on some of what I have read here so far, maybe this WOULD be an appropriate option for inclusion in the list.
"Magic" is one of the fundamental properties of "Reality"

Cain

Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 05:08:39 PMYep, that's exactly it Cain. Gosh, you're so smart.

Hey Rata...why are you such a passive aggressive pansy all the fucking time?

Iptuous, blow me.

Cain

Quote from: Payne on October 21, 2008, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on October 21, 2008, 05:37:30 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 05:02:46 PM
Well done, you are both off topic and pointlessly shit-stirring.


Bullshit. Cain isn't stirring the shit, he's pointing out someone else who is stirring shit. There is a significant difference rite thar.



Its such a shame we can't have intellectual debate here, isn't it?

Cain,
the real reason PD.com can't have the nice things.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 05:54:55 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 05:08:39 PMYep, that's exactly it Cain. Gosh, you're so smart.

Hey Rata...why are you such a passive aggressive pansy all the fucking time?

Iptuous, blow me.

Well, mostly because fighting over shit like this, here, usually ends badly. So I don't want to fight with you over my comment. Cram wasn't offended, you were. Sorry you were offended... but I'm not gonna fight with you about it. WTF?
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Iason Ouabache

Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 03:26:58 PM
Agnostic, verging on atheism.  I think gods don't exist, but I don't Really Really Truthfully Know (100%) if that is the case.

I also see gods as useful symbols or metaphors, depending on context and deployment.
This is basically what I believe even though I have a reputation as more atheist than agnostic.  I just like pointing and laughing at all of the people who think that they KNOW the unknowable.  But it fucking scares me when those same people manage to get themselves in positions of power.

I've also got a bit of ignostism / theological noncognitivism: we can't even talk about "god" until someone gives a coherent definition for "god".  
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
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Elder Iptuous

Quote from: singer on October 21, 2008, 05:53:01 PM
There really isn't anything on the list that would incorporate possible panentheistic permutations... however broadly you would want to define the option.  So I resort to "other".

But, based on some of what I have read here so far, maybe this WOULD be an appropriate option for inclusion in the list.

Can options be added to the poll after creation?

Also, to be more accurate:
Quote from: Payne on October 21, 2008, 05:48:47 PM
Bullshit. Cain isn't stirring the shit, he's pointing out someone else who is stirring shit. There is a significant difference rite thar.

Iason Ouabache

Dammit, Rat!  Just get in the fucking box!!!! 

:lulz:
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
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Cain

Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 05:59:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 21, 2008, 05:54:55 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on October 21, 2008, 05:08:39 PMYep, that's exactly it Cain. Gosh, you're so smart.

Hey Rata...why are you such a passive aggressive pansy all the fucking time?

Iptuous, blow me.

Well, mostly because fighting over shit like this, here, usually ends badly. So I don't want to fight with you over my comment. Cram wasn't offended, you were. Sorry you were offended... but I'm not gonna fight with you about it. WTF?

Then why are you responding and keeping the fight going?

QuoteOh well then, stop.

I'm not the hypocrite who is provoking people with snarky comments then crying about how much I hate fighting.

Cain

I HATE FIGHTS!  THATS WHY I KEEP PROVOKING AND CONTINUING THEM WITH MY DIPSHIT, PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE ARGUMENTS!
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