WARNING: D&D TALK

[Requia ☣]

*looks it up*

Huh, they stole that from M&M

[Z³]

My current barbarian, for example, can be hit in the head with an axe a very good of times... and within a week he's completely forgotten these brutal axe wounds. I'd rather a wounding system, where damage dealt is actually significant.

That's the point of the abstraction though.  A hit with an attack roll does not directly translate to a physical hit on your character.  Sometimes it's your luck running out, sometimes it's barely getting out of the way but you are now in a less tenable position, or sometimes it's just your character being overwhelmed by the dire situation he/she is in.  It is not that hard to work into the narration of combat to the point where over the span of a fight there are only one or two solid hits that do physical damage to the character.

My point is specifically that I would prefer no abstraction, and that a hit with an attack roll should literally mean a physical hit. The additional narration thats required is merely an attempt to bridge the gap between the system itself, and believability, and it shouldnt be necessary.

A characters footing, his luck, his mental state, are all things that could be adequately represented by actual game mechanics.. if you like, instead of being abstractions of HIT POINTS. So my point isnt that you're not allowed to pretend that hit points mean anything at all, you are.  Its just that the system itself suffers a flaw for this being necessary.

It just becomes more things you need to keep track of though.  And I imagine in many games it would just degrade into <thing that can get hurt> points.

I'm trying to think of a game I've played that didn't use hit points (or a similar variation) and am drawing a blank.  I don't think the d20 version of Mutants & Masterminds used hit point, but they did have optional rules to add them back in.  I can't remember what World of Darkness systems use, all I can remember is my character sheet looking like an SAT answer sheet.

Unearthed Arcana (the D&D 3.5  supplement) offered at least one optional system that didn't use hit points, as well as at least two optional fixes to the hit point system (including one that fixes the previously mentioned overreliance on clerics)

Hit Points are essentially a numerical value that determine, numerically, how many units of 'damage' you can sustain.

There are other systems (wod, shadowrun, burning wheel, etc) that have a limited number of boxes that get filled in as you take damage, in this variation rather than damage having an intrinsic value, its more like a dice roll contest. Using shadowrun as an example, a weapon fills in a set number of boxes and has a value that is the difficulty of your soak roll, you roll to see how well you resist that damage, and you either fill in less numbers or more. Also, in dealing the damage the number of successes you yield can stage up the damage, meaning that if you have a skilled shot, its harder to negate by the way of soak. White Wolf is very much the same way. There are fundemental differences that make this possible, and interpretation between systems is different. In D20, a success is a success, and you only ever roll one dice. In systems that use this alternate method, they tend to have degrees of success depending on how many successes you achieve, and you tend to roll alternate dice.

As far as damage is concerned, I think its better, because it communicates the severity of the damage much more effectively. You take negatives as these boxes are filled in, and the way you narrate that as a gamemaster is pretty much spelled out for you because the severity of the wound is determined (without actually rolling a percentile chart to decide where a random blow lands, I think thats retarded). In other words, If somebody takes a serious wound, I can call it as a chest shot or whatever, but if the wound is minor... it might just be the shoulder or wrist, or an in-and-out gunshot to the intestine... or whatever, but that damage has a mechanical effect on gameplay. After being wounded, things are more difficult.

As a matter of fact, in a system with guns (shadowrun), this encourages avoiding being wounded by utilizing cover, baiting your enemy, and not blindly charging into a firefight. In a system without guns (burning wheel), this encourages studying your enemy, positioning yourself so as not to be flanked, judging his attitude (if he has a superior position, reach, etc), and not just blindly charging in. In effect, combat becomes more tactical, but you're still not playing warhammer.

[LMNO]

In my opinion it's much easier, and more productive, to simply masturbate to internet porn.

[Telarus]

lol

[Triple Zero]

In my opinion it's much easier, and more productive, to simply masturbate to internet porn.

NOT D&D.

[LMNO]

In my opinion it's much easier, and more productive, to simply masturbate to internet porn.

NOT D&D.

[Kai]

I think ya'all should play whatever game works for you. The real challenge is imagination and creativity. You could have basic rule books with errors galore and myriad mechanics, you could even run a game without any rulebooks (srsly). How much fun the game is depends on the camaraderie, focus and ingenuity of the players and the game master (if there even is one).

If the players don't get along, are distracted and with out focus and lacking in imagination and creativity, the game is going to suck no matter what system you use.

[Richter]

In my opinion it's much easier, and more productive, to simply masturbate to internet porn.

NOT D&D.

It's odd for a roleplayer to accuse someone of lack of imagination.  Just saying. 

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

In my opinion it's much easier, and more productive, to simply masturbate to internet porn.

NOT D&D.

YOU haven't read the Netbook of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge

[PopeTom]

In my opinion it's much easier, and more productive, to simply masturbate to internet porn.

Which is why 4th Edition is so awesome.  It makes creating an adventure so easy that the DM can now spend as much time masturbating to internet porn as the players in the group.

[Richter]

4th ed. 1 shot is the game for tonight.  The dude who usually GM;s is cranky.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

4th ed. 1 shot is the game for tonight.  The dude who usually GM;s is cranky.

All 4E is a one shot.

[Richter]

WAIT!

Host is fishing for other ideas. 
I'm brining a crapload of d6, energy shots and espresso beans.  Caffeine pirate gambling may be a game you play to loose...

[Cramulus]

bump for lail

also, for the "D&D is just a video game crowd", here's one of the 3 designers of 4e talking about the similarities between 4e and WoW

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75850/18830874/D38;D_4e_=_WoW?pg=1

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

bump for lail

also, for the "D&D is just a video game crowd", here's one of the 3 designers of 4e talking about the similarities between 4e and WoW

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75850/18830874/D38;D_4e_=_WoW?pg=1

This makes me want to go to Louisana, find a chicken and a hoodoo woman so I can summon Gary Gygax to slaughter the all.