The evil of banality

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Mang, it was an interesting essay, but I think you're confusing some of the "it's so cool to be goth! Look at me, I'm different ans special!" people with the "trying to be connected with and honor my ancestors" people. For instance, witchcraft isn't a word especially loaded with negative connotations if you aren't raised Christian. Most cultures have witches, and they're not always considered evil... many times the word is used to describe a healer, even in Western culture.

Not everyone "gets" ancestor worship. But hell, not everyone "gets" Christianisty, more's the better.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, I was also going to mention something about how Wicca really is a modern result of disenfranchised, disconnected people living in a land dominated by a foreign religion, seeking a nature-based alternative religion that at least somewhat resonated with their heritage. None existed, so they invented one. The only Wiccans who really bother me are the ones who pretend it wasn't reinvented, but "recovered". Oh, also spooky witchy-woo types bug the shit out of me.

Plenty of cottage-witchy superstitions and connected rituals still exist and are present even in our mainstream Western culture, so the threads of European paganism do exist to connect us to the past, they're just very tenuous for most of us, except those who come from the few Western cultures that managed to survive the competing invasions of Islam and Christianity with their lore relatively intact.

[Kurt Christ]

This is very insightful and raises some good points, Mang. I'm completely flummoxed with the whole vampire movement, as well as a lot of other movements out there. For instance, the "Neo-Norse" movement, where people apparantly worship the ancient Nordic gods/goddesses. These same people - a large portion of them at least (or so I am assuming) - fail to live lives which reflect the war-like orientation of the Nordic god-folk. There are, indeed, major discrepancies.

I imagine that similar trends will invade secular thought as well, with atheists going back to the Greek philosophers for their roots or something. Fifty years from now, there might be a sizable sub-culture urinating in the streets in emulation of Diogenes.

The Nordic crowd, I forgot about them. Of course, not all historical depictions are true, in fact many are not. (eg: European perception of Native Americans for one of a gazllion examples). However, just about every culture has had some notion of evil magic and evil undead beasties stalking the living. They feel like odd choices for people to identify with. As words 'witch' and 'vampire' are heavily laden with baggage and it seems to me, to be more trouble than it's worth to renovate them.

I'm wondering what other figures, widely considered taboo will get a political correctness overhaul in the future. Is it possible to romantacize a medieval executioner for example?

Discordians

[OPTIMUS PINECONE]

This is very insightful and raises some good points, Mang. I'm completely flummoxed with the whole vampire movement, as well as a lot of other movements out there. For instance, the "Neo-Norse" movement, where people apparantly worship the ancient Nordic gods/goddesses. These same people - a large portion of them at least (or so I am assuming) - fail to live lives which reflect the war-like orientation of the Nordic god-folk. There are, indeed, major discrepancies.

I imagine that similar trends will invade secular thought as well, with atheists going back to the Greek philosophers for their roots or something. Fifty years from now, there might be a sizable sub-culture urinating in the streets in emulation of Diogenes.

The Nordic crowd, I forgot about them. Of course, not all historical depictions are true, in fact many are not. (eg: European perception of Native Americans for one of a gazllion examples). However, just about every culture has had some notion of evil magic and evil undead beasties stalking the living. They feel like odd choices for people to identify with. As words 'witch' and 'vampire' are heavily laden with baggage and it seems to me, to be more trouble than it's worth to renovate them.

I'm wondering what other figures, widely considered taboo will get a political correctness overhaul in the future. Is it possible to romantacize a medieval executioner for example?

     I think women with loose buttholes, like in DeSade's novels, will be as goddesses in the tomorrow.

[Mangrove]

Mang, it was an interesting essay,

Thank you 

but I think you're confusing some of the "it's so cool to be goth! Look at me, I'm different ans special!" people with the "trying to be connected with and honor my ancestors" people.

Possibly.

For instance, witchcraft isn't a word especially loaded with negative connotations if you aren't raised Christian.

True, but people everywhere have always been afraid of the possibility of 'malefic' magic, regardless of whether they were Christian or not. To be more specific - I was riffing off of Hutton's book (Triumph Of The Moon) which is focussed on the British Isles and the way in which over the past 200 years, the whole notion of what constitutes 'pagan' and 'witch' has been reinvented, retooled and re-evaluated numerous times and often without substantiation.

Most cultures have witches, and they're not always considered evil... many times the word is used to describe a healer, even in Western culture.

The term 'witch' might be applied to healers in Western culture, but I suspect that's a fairly modern convention. Even in the 1950's & 60's in Britain, with the rise of people like Gerald Gardner & Alex Sanders, there was still a huge outcry over the term being anything other than a negative. Modern 'good witch' within the Judeo/Christian world is still...umm...modern. 

Not everyone "gets" ancestor worship. But hell, not everyone "gets" Christianisty, more's the better.

True. I agree with you here. But not if you're including 'vampires' in this....

[Mangrove]

Oh, I was also going to mention something about how Wicca really is a modern result of disenfranchised, disconnected people living in a land dominated by a foreign religion, seeking a nature-based alternative religion that at least somewhat resonated with their heritage. None existed, so they invented one. The only Wiccans who really bother me are the ones who pretend it wasn't reinvented, but "recovered". Oh, also spooky witchy-woo types bug the shit out of me.

Hellz yes!!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

     I think women with loose buttholes, like in DeSade's novels, will be as goddesses in the tomorrow.

Sounds like someone is ALREADY DRUNK.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

True, but people everywhere have always been afraid of the possibility of 'malefic' magic, regardless of whether they were Christian or not. To be more specific - I was riffing off of Hutton's book (Triumph Of The Moon) which is focussed on the British Isles and the way in which over the past 200 years, the whole notion of what constitutes 'pagan' and 'witch' has been reinvented, retooled and re-evaluated numerous times and often without substantiation.

Gotta agree with you on that.

The term 'witch' might be applied to healers in Western culture, but I suspect that's a fairly modern convention. Even in the 1950's & 60's in Britain, with the rise of people like Gerald Gardner & Alex Sanders, there was still a huge outcry over the term being anything other than a negative. Modern 'good witch' within the Judeo/Christian world is still...umm...modern. 

This is also, indeed, more or less true as it applies to Europe, however most regions all over the world have had their "magical healers", and for lack of a better word, the ones in many areas were dubbed "witch-doctors". The issue of translation makes things less than clear, as obviously Christian Westerners bring their own connotations to the word "witch", even when it's used in the positive sense, and the connotations of the native words are lost to those who are not native speakers.

True. I agree with you here. But not if you're including 'vampires' in this....

NO FUCKING VAMPIRES. 

[Requia ☣]

MY GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER WAS A REALLY REAL FOR REALS VAMPIRE


I've heard of a Roman cult that drank blood, and was responsible for some of the modern legends.  (can't find an online source, was late night history channel) Though I think they may have been ripping off an older legend about blood drinking monsters.

[Requia ☣]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empusa  <-- greek/roman vampires, or mythical blood drinker(s) at any rate

Edir: Oh yeah, next romanticized myth is gonna be Eris.

[hooplala]

Mang' this is an excellent piece, and I wish it had already been written before I got into a big argument with a self proclaimed "wiccan" on friday night about her bullshit beliefs...

I've often wondered how -exactly- psychic vampires "drink" energy.  None have ever been able to properly (for my tastes) explain the mechanics of the procedure.

And, while I agree with Nigel to a point about magic practitioners not always being seen as exactly evil, they are almost always (at least from my research) feared to some degree.  Even shamans in North American Aboriginal culture were certainly respected, but also feared to a large extent.  In any culture with magic practitioners around it was considered a bad move to fuck with the local brujo or bruja, lest strange things should begin happening to you.

[Manta Obscura]

I've often wondered how -exactly- psychic vampires "drink" energy.  None have ever been able to properly (for my tastes) explain the mechanics of the procedure.

They wear dark clothes and try to speak in a soft, monotone voice, in emulation of their holy figure, Saint Lestat. After that the Divine Energy becomes transfused into them by the powers of darkness and stuff, presumably in some kind of undead osmosis.

I can't say any more, lest my vampyre brethren turn on me and suck out my psychic energy for betraying their undead secret of undead-ness.

Manta,
gonna get psychic-raped by angsty teens with skin pigment deficiencies

[Manta Obscura]

This is very insightful and raises some good points, Mang. I'm completely flummoxed with the whole vampire movement, as well as a lot of other movements out there. For instance, the "Neo-Norse" movement, where people apparantly worship the ancient Nordic gods/goddesses. These same people - a large portion of them at least (or so I am assuming) - fail to live lives which reflect the war-like orientation of the Nordic god-folk. There are, indeed, major discrepancies.

I imagine that similar trends will invade secular thought as well, with atheists going back to the Greek philosophers for their roots or something. Fifty years from now, there might be a sizable sub-culture urinating in the streets in emulation of Diogenes.

All the Odinists I've met have been big on getting into, and winning, a lot of fights.  They also display a sense of honor that I have yet to find in most other people.  Granted, 90% of them have been to prison (the Odinists, I mean.)  The ones I've met are about as war-like as you can get in modern society without becoming a serial murderer (which is sinful in Asatru; they consider murder and a righteous killing two entirely separate things, one being in battle, the other being in cold blood.)  I've known a number that gravitate towards the military, and the rest simply use it as a code to live the way they want.

I have to say, I've always felt that Norse Mythology is the most beatiful of any that I've studied.  Even the parts without focus on war can be very guiding to a person, I think.  If I was a pagan, I'd probably be an Odinist.

Well-put. I take back what I said about the Odinists (Odinites?). Having only met about fifteen of them in my lifetime - and all fifteen of them were rather stupid - I guess my perspective was pretty biased.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I've often wondered how -exactly- psychic vampires "drink" energy.  None have ever been able to properly (for my tastes) explain the mechanics of the procedure.

Fact of the matter is, those motherfuckers will starve they stupid-ass selves to DEATH if they don't eat a sandwich every once in a while. Also, there is nothing funnier than a self-proclaimed "vampire" eating a sandwich, unless it's clown porn.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And, while I agree with Nigel to a point about magic practitioners not always being seen as exactly evil, they are almost always (at least from my research) feared to some degree.  Even shamans in North American Aboriginal culture were certainly respected, but also feared to a large extent.  In any culture with magic practitioners around it was considered a bad move to fuck with the local brujo or bruja, lest strange things should begin happening to you.

Oh yeah, and also this. I was going to say that whether practitioners of "magic" are feared really depends, A LOT, on what kind of magic they practice. Someone who communes with powerful spirits = feared. Generally. Mild-mannered ladies who practice herb charms and midwifery, not so much, especially if they practice it within a cultural framework that makes them appear benevolent. My paternal grandma, a Baptist from the south, worked with herbal healing and charms her whole life, and no one thought twice about it because the other ladies did too. They just didn't think of it as anything unusual. Nowadays we'd call most of what they did "superstition". My maternal great-grandma, a nominally Mormon hillbilly by conversion and marriage, also worked with herbs in a not-necessarily-straightforward way involving superstition and ritual, and called it "greenwifing" or something odd like that.

I strongly doubt these examples are even vaguely unusual. I suspect, even just based on what I've gleaned from talking to my dad and my (admittedly quite crazy so I take everything she says with a grain of salt) mom, that this kind of "casual witchery" thing was/is incredibly common. Add to that a deeply-ingrained cultural belief in ancestral communication and "listening to the land", and you have something ridiculously close to what modern people are calling "witchcraft", except within an interestingly adapted Judeo-Christian framework. Remove the framework, and you're left with... what? Certainly not fearsome grandmas!