Discordianism and Morality

[Vene]

Wait until Kai reads this...

Hate will be shat.

Besides, I find your assertion that morality arises 'out of nowhere, out of Chaos' to be as unsatisfactory as those who claim it is directed by God.

I never fucking said that you motherfucking twat.  I don't give a shit what you think about morals, just don't misapply biology when you figure them out.  I have more respect for fundamentalist Christians because at least they try to understand their theology.

Why is this idea so offensive too you? Does the prospect that your ideas and beliefs today could have arisen from ancient biological drives and pressures rob you of that feeling youre a special and unique snowflake?

I've forgotten more biology than you know.

Just so you're clear, here's an example of you fucking up evolutionary biology.

My second point is that I am refering to macro-evolution. Within a group, or between two groups, indeed, the strongest is often the victor, and that is dependant moreso on phyiscal stature and aggresion.

That is not evolution, that is a creotard strawman.  Actual evolutionary theory states that those who live long enough to fuck and have offspring will spread more of their traits into the general population.  They could do it by being the biggest badass, until a bigger predator kills and eats it.  A lot of times the pretty boy has a greater fitness, because he got laid unlike mister badass who fights every motherfucking thing he sees.  Or you have a badass lone wolf, who gets chased out of the pack by the weaker members for being a dick.  He's not getting laid, he's working too hard to sustain himself on rats.

Also, I fucking hate it that species-centric fucks always focus on animals.  Your strawman means nothing in the world of plants.  An aggressive flower is just fucking moronic and I don't care which flower is the most imposing, if bees aren't attracted to it's petals it ain't reproducing.  The REAL theory applies to these circumstances, your idiotic version where the tough guys always win fails.

[Cramulus]

 
ah, one of my favorite forum landmines. Inaccuracy in discussing evolution. 

[Elder Iptuous]

cause social "evolution" is an entirely different beast than biological evolution.

why is social behavioral patterns, and their changes over time an entirely different beast than biological evolution?  it seems they would be intimately linked?

[Malcoid the Malcontent]

Besides, I find your assertion that morality arises 'out of nowhere, out of Chaos' to be as unsatisfactory as those who claim it is directed by God.

I never fucking said that you motherfucking twat. 

I got you confused with another poster. Sorry, when people are being arrogant pricks they all tend to sound the same.

That is not evolution, that is a creotard strawman.  Actual evolutionary theory states that those who live long enough to fuck and have offspring will spread more of their traits into the general population.  They could do it by being the biggest badass, until a bigger predator kills and eats it.  A lot of times the pretty boy has a greater fitness, because he got laid unlike mister badass who fights every motherfucking thing he sees.  Or you have a badass lone wolf, who gets chased out of the pack by the weaker members for being a dick.  He's not getting laid, he's working too hard to sustain himself on rats.

Also, I fucking hate it that species-centric fucks always focus on animals.  Your strawman means nothing in the world of plants.  An aggressive flower is just fucking moronic and I don't care which flower is the most imposing, if bees aren't attracted to it's petals it ain't reproducing.  The REAL theory applies to these circumstances, your idiotic version where the tough guys always win fails.

Yes I know, the tough guy doesnt always win. If that was the case, humans probably would not be the dominant species on the planet. Its more likely that higher brain function and better social cooperation allowed us to claim the top of the shit pile. So, I would suggest its possible that the concept of morality and ethics arose in conjunction with the evolution of our brain.

To be honest, I dont know that much or care that much about this particular topic. I definitely do not give a shit about how evolution relates to plants. I just dont feel inclined to let you be a condescending dick towards me and not say anything.

[Vene]

Yes I know, the tough guy doesnt always win. If that was the case, humans probably would not be the dominant species on the planet. Its more likely that higher brain function and better social cooperation allowed us to claim the top of the shit pile. So, I would suggest its possible that the concept of morality and ethics arose in conjunction with the evolution of our brain.

You think we're the dominant species   Various insects and bacteria have got us beat.

To be honest, I dont know that much or care that much about this particular topic. I definitely do not give a shit about how evolution relates to plants. I just dont feel inclined to let you be a condescending dick towards me and not say anything.

If you don't fucking understand it, don't fucking apply it.  You don't have an understanding of evolution, so don't try and apply it.  That's what caused social darwinism.

[Malcoid the Malcontent]

Yes I know, the tough guy doesnt always win. If that was the case, humans probably would not be the dominant species on the planet. Its more likely that higher brain function and better social cooperation allowed us to claim the top of the shit pile. So, I would suggest its possible that the concept of morality and ethics arose in conjunction with the evolution of our brain.

You think we're the dominant species   Various insects and bacteria have got us beat.

Hmmm, yeah right. I dont think being a bacteria or an insect would be terribley interesting. Desipte our problems and limitations, I consider humans to be a far superior form of life. Maybe that isnt 'dominant' in biological terms, but honestly, I dont give a shit about the insects or bacteria. Unless one with leathal poison bit me or infected me. Then multiple shits would be given.

If you don't fucking understand it, don't fucking apply it.  You don't have an understanding of evolution, so don't try and apply it.  That's what caused social darwinism.

In this case, the tide pulled me a bit deeper than I had intended to wade, however I dont see any reason why I should shy away from engaging myself with an idea I dont fully understand. Its a method of learning. Also, this method is tends to be more interesting than reading a book of someone elses thoughts.

[hooplala]

I believe morals were invented by man to fulfill the intense need people have to tell others how they should behave.

End of story.

Heres a question for you:

Why do you think we have the intense need to tell others how they should behave?

1) Sadism

2) Inferiority complexes

3) Superiority complexes

4) Nosiness

5) Lulz

[Iason Ouabache]

If you don't fucking understand it, don't fucking apply it.  You don't have an understanding of evolution, so don't try and apply it.  That's what caused social darwinism.

I wouldn't be so hard on him.  I'm sure that he meant to say "Human behavioral ecology" rather than "evolution".

[LMNO]

 


Someone wake me when Kai gets here.

[AFK]

Yes I know, the tough guy doesnt always win. If that was the case, humans probably would not be the dominant species on the planet. Its more likely that higher brain function and better social cooperation allowed us to claim the top of the shit pile. So, I would suggest its possible that the concept of morality and ethics arose in conjunction with the evolution of our brain.

Currently the "dominant" species.  Though, I'm not sure our "domination" is necessarily anything to be proud of.  It certainly has had some less than stellar results.  I tend to think the ideas of morality and ethics arose in conjunction with the evolution of society, not our brains.  If we were all still living in disparate caves, our nearest neighbors a days journey away, morals and ethics would not be necessary.  They became a necessity once we figured out we are going to be stuck swimming in a vast sea of humanity.  It's the morals and ethics, in part, that allow us to tread that sea and keep us from drowning.  In other words, sometimes you have to be nice to other people in order to make it anywhere in society. 

To be honest, I dont know that much or care that much about this particular topic. I definitely do not give a shit about how evolution relates to plants. I just dont feel inclined to let you be a condescending dick towards me and not say anything.

Hey, you're at pd.com.  Strap on a helmet. 

[Vene]

To be honest, I dont know that much or care that much about this particular topic. I definitely do not give a shit about how evolution relates to plants. I just dont feel inclined to let you be a condescending dick towards me and not say anything.

Hey, you're at pd.com.  Strap on a helmet. 

I've found one for him.

[LMNO]

Ok, maybe we're being a bit harsh.

Morals are the result of high-level thought processes (by "high-level" I mean meta thinking, the sort of thinking that separates us from most other primates and mammals).

The fundamental structure in our brain allows high-level thought.

Evolution somehow produced the fundamental structure in our brain.

So, it could be said that morals come from the evolutionary process.  However, saying it like that implies a much more direct link than is actually there.  I mean, you could take that line of thought and say that Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is a result of evolution; even though you can reason it out, it's essentially a meaningless statement.

Malcoid, did I read right that you're not in High School yet?

[Cain]

Yeah, the link seems somewhat tenuous at best, and could really be only useful in a descriptive sense (ie; how 'morals' operate) not a prescriptive one (this is right and this is wrong).

[Vene]

Ok, maybe we're being a bit harsh.

Morals are the result of high-level thought processes (by "high-level" I mean meta thinking, the sort of thinking that separates us from most other primates and mammals).

The fundamental structure in our brain allows high-level thought.

Evolution somehow produced the fundamental structure in our brain.

So, it could be said that morals come from the evolutionary process.  However, saying it like that implies a much more direct link than is actually there.  I mean, you could take that line of thought and say that Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is a result of evolution; even though you can reason it out, it's essentially a meaningless statement.

TITCM

Malcoid, did I read right that you're not in High School yet?

That would explain a lot.

[Elder Iptuous]

So, it could be said that morals come from the evolutionary process.  However, saying it like that implies a much more direct link than is actually there.  I mean, you could take that line of thought and say that Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is a result of evolution; even though you can reason it out, it's essentially a meaningless statement.

Separating any behavior and patterns thereof from the evolutionary process that spawned them seems to be unduly elevating ourselves above the 'base natural order'.  Why is it anything other than a direct link?  (your example of music is an interesting question, when viewed from that angle, and i would imagine full of insight rather than meaningless)  In regards to morality, that would seem even more direct as they set the standards of social interaction for group, and thereby their success, no?