Wikipedia had it coming...

[AFK]

This might be an odd thought, but has anyone considered that as far as the "modern Discordia movement" goes, we here at PD and POEE might be in the minority, and there are a far greater number of Pinealists out there, content and happy with the Fluffy Eris and ZOMG23?

I'm pretty sure you are correct. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, but if they don't print any literature or make any notable art they are the silent masses, and won't be credited in later years for helping to shape the direction of the movement. The many who follow never get any credit, it's the few who put their shit out there that do. We might be the minority, but we're a minority that is constantly adding to the Discordian body of work.

Speaking of publication, IF thinks do pick up in the New Year and I have a spare few hundred dollars, I am going to register my press name with the state and buy a block of ISBNs, at which point I can set up a lightningsource account. I will publish any substantial Discordian books anyone wants published. Lightningsource is distributed through Ingrams, so all bookstores will have the ability to order from my press.

... assuming the economy picks up and I have a few spare hundred dollars.

On another note, LOOK TEH FUCK AT THIS: http://www.amazon.com/Boyds-Moosemas-Basket-Ornament-25452/dp/B000JJLPDS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1229014511&sr=8-5

[Manta Obscura]

This might be an odd thought, but has anyone considered that as far as the "modern Discordia movement" goes, we here at PD and POEE might be in the minority, and there are a far greater number of Pinealists out there, content and happy with the Fluffy Eris and ZOMG23?

They're part of the "modern Discordia bowel movement," collecting all the old shit and crapping over everything. But I agree with you that we are, most likely, a small minority. I guess individuals always are.

[Manta Obscura]

Yeah, but if they don't print any literature or make any notable art they are the silent masses, and won't be credited in later years for helping to shape the direction of the movement. The many who follow never get any credit, it's the few who put their shit out there that do. We might be the minority, but we're a minority that is constantly adding to the Discordian body of work.

Speaking of publication, IF thinks do pick up in the New Year and I have a spare few hundred dollars, I am going to register my press name with the state and buy a block of ISBNs, at which point I can set up a lightningsource account. I will publish any substantial Discordian books anyone wants published. Lightningsource is distributed through Ingrams, so all bookstores will have the ability to order from my press.

... assuming the economy picks up and I have a few spare hundred dollars.

On another note, LOOK TEH FUCK AT THIS: http://www.amazon.com/Boyds-Moosemas-Basket-Ornament-25452/dp/B000JJLPDS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1229014511&sr=8-5

I will give you infinity billion mittens if you are able to do that, Nigel. 

Also, that Moosemas thing is awesome!

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

This might be an odd thought, but has anyone considered that as far as the "modern Discordia movement" goes, we here at PD and POEE might be in the minority, and there are a far greater number of Pinealists out there, content and happy with the Fluffy Eris and ZOMG23?

There are many active Discordians on this planet (I think). Some (but not all of them) hang out in online forums that like to talk about philosophy and BiP's etc. Some (but not all of them) apparently don't hang out much online... Many (but not all) of the ones that DO hang out online appear to be of the more pineal variety, or at least they use that model in their internet discussions a lot.

Perhaps the problem lies in occasionally considering ourselves as <i> the "modern Discordia movement"</i> rather than <i> one of many modern Discordian movements</i>. In most of my Internet travels I find many Pinealists that simply chatter Fnordstuff... or extremely thoughtful Discordians that still enjoy the Fnordstuff (see the Awesome Pirate Dan aka Cramulus, or the brilliant Telarus, or the witty Prof. Mu Chao, Dr. Jon, or the lovely St. Mae and the mostly crazy San Francisco Cabals that are still active). On LJ, there are Discordians that hang out in Convert Me, Philosophy and similar groups... often making extremely well reasoned arguments. In fact, Telarus,  Gleef, myself and others have successfully converted people from both the religious and athiest sides of debate in Convert Me and overall the approach has generally made use of a lot of the more traditional memes and RAW ideas than new stuff. That being said, some of us also include the new ideas metaphors and memes discussed here where we think they'd be helpful.

I think the Discordian movement here is headed in a useful direction, and I hope that some of the ideas here will influence Discordian movements in the future. But, I think that, by far, BiPers are in the minority compared to Pinealists... it would be nice if both were in the minority, as the majority was happy to use whatever memes were most useful at the moment... but my model agnosticism is show again, eh?

[Cain]

I still say we declare war on Wikipedia.

[Manta Obscura]

I still say we declare war on Wikipedia.

I'll bring the ammo if you've got the K rations.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I still say we declare war on Wikipedia.

I'm in.

[AFK]

Will we make a wiki page about it afterwards? 

[Cramulus]

NOTE: it took me too long to write this post, and Nigel and Ratatosk have already said all the stuff below 

This might be an odd thought, but has anyone considered that as far as the "modern Discordia movement" goes, we here at PD and POEE might be in the minority, and there are a far greater number of Pinealists out there, content and happy with the Fluffy Eris and ZOMG23?

yes, but I think their contentment stems from a lack of stimulation. Also, because they are not part of a creative community, they are not prompted to be thinking forward and producing new iterations on the Discordian fractal.


there's a TON of art, poetry, literature, cinema, creative work etc etc which is highly influenced by the PD and "Discordian Thought"... but it's harder to identify that stuff as "Discordian" unless it does so overtly.

In my opinion, The Pinealist which we so often villify is akin to the christian bible thumper. It's someone who is repeating lines from the PD to a jaded forum, expecting it to have some positive effect. They are not being creative, they're just quoting something they think is cool. I do think they are a minority. Honestly, we don't see many pinealists around here these days.


To clarify: there are zillions of people who have resonated with the PD but aren't focused on it.. Their behavior may be a bit more "Discordian", but you'd never know unless they identify themselves overtly. And they don't have a lot of source material to draw on to identify themselves to others - fnords, illuminati, pineal glands, etc... A lot of these people are hungry for more, but they haven't been exposed to anything new since Wilson. They're good cats, I just think they haven't been simulated or provoked in the right way.





but this may all be wasted breath,
Discordians are hard to point at or generalize about since it's not like they gather anywhere in particular.

I just think it's a shame that when people think of Discordia, most of them only think of the PD and RAW, when there's been so much more... fuck the "masses", we're the early innovators, we're the ones trying to iterate, why should we get ignored because we're new?

[AFK]

Maybe we need more T&A. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

NOTE: it took me too long to write this post, and Nigel and Ratatosk have already said all the stuff below 

This might be an odd thought, but has anyone considered that as far as the "modern Discordia movement" goes, we here at PD and POEE might be in the minority, and there are a far greater number of Pinealists out there, content and happy with the Fluffy Eris and ZOMG23?

yes, but I think their contentment stems from a lack of stimulation. Also, because they are not part of a creative community, they are not prompted to be thinking forward and producing new iterations on the Discordian fractal.


there's a TON of art, poetry, literature, cinema, creative work etc etc which is highly influenced by the PD and "Discordian Thought"... but it's harder to identify that stuff as "Discordian" unless it does so overtly.

In my opinion, The Pinealist which we so often villify is akin to the christian bible thumper. It's someone who is repeating lines from the PD to a jaded forum, expecting it to have some positive effect. They are not being creative, they're just quoting something they think is cool. I do think they are a minority. Honestly, we don't see many pinealists around here these days.


To clarify: there are zillions of people who have resonated with the PD but aren't focused on it.. Their behavior may be a bit more "Discordian", but you'd never know unless they identify themselves overtly. And they don't have a lot of source material to draw on to identify themselves to others - fnords, illuminati, pineal glands, etc... A lot of these people are hungry for more, but they haven't been exposed to anything new since Wilson. They're good cats, I just think they haven't been simulated or provoked in the right way.





but this may all be wasted breath,
Discordians are hard to point at or generalize about since it's not like they gather anywhere in particular.

I just think it's a shame that when people think of Discordia, most of them only think of the PD and RAW, when there's been so much more... fuck the "masses", we're the early innovators, we're the ones trying to

This is good stuff Cram. I disagree that Pineal people are Bible Thumpers, some seem to fit that, but some just seem to like the memes/jokes (the older 23ae crowd for example). I'd argue that Discordians of any memeplex could become Bible Thumpers... if they think that their interpretation and actions are The Right One. At any rate, I think the most important thing to consider is that we are adding to the pool of resources that might inspire other Discordians, in some cases, it already has. That doesn't mean ALL Discordians will or even should be inspired by our stuff, nor does it mean that Discordians inspired by Fnords are somehow less Discordian, in my opinion.

I'm not sure Discordia would benefit from an Us vs Them mentality. Its bad enough when Discordians think they're so much more enlightened than the 'Cabbages'... to start having Discordians fight over which Discordian is most Discordian sounds like the sort of nonsense that Eris will enjoy, but not many other people

[AFK]

Well, at the very least, the Brazillians seem to like what we have to offer. 

[Cramulus]

anyway, if the mission statement is to make better articles about Discordia on wikipedia, and make "our Discordia" part of the Discordian zeitgeist,  I reccommend a threefold approach:

A) We need to figure out what exactly needs to be said. Discordapedia seems to be the "official" discordian wiki linked from the wikipedia article, so anything that we can't make an article for on wikipedia (like the BIP probably doesn't deserve its own article yet), we should make an article for on discordapedia. Then someone should mirror those articles on the s23 wiki.

B) Some of us should become wikipedia editors. Those people should learn the protocols, make some edits on non-Discordian articles, and participate in unrelated wiki-battles. In doing so they will establish credibility and therefore power within the editor community. Having some wikipedia editors in our pocket would be a very useful community resources. Note, I do not think this will take more than two or three weeks of doing one small thing a day. Volunteers?

C) Get some existing wikipedia editors on board. There are Discordian wikipedia editors, it may just be a matter of inviting them here and showing them what we're up to.


thoughts?

[Cain]

I feel icky even working with Wikipedia.  They're not a reliable source, and the minute they feel they are being manipulated or that you do not kiss sufficient ass, they will undo months of work simply to spite you.

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Portal:Wikipedia

Between the childish insults and hilarious, but sadly made up accusations, there are some insights into how Wikipedia works.  I have some serious issues with trying to work with these sort of people.  I would much rather we tried to displace them as a "trusted source", which in theory should not be too hard.