Author Topic: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza  (Read 25230 times)

Cain

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2009, 03:19:07 pm »
Thats actually a really, really good question.

I suppose it depends what crowd's are letting the Israeli government get away with it.  The Israeli people, or at least a plurality of them, seem pretty sick of being under the threat of attack all the time.  A significant minority are practically revelling in the bloodshed being visited upon Gaza, in a rather disgusting way.

The Israeli Parliament goes along with it because the military is big business, and keeping the economy afloat.  Israel's economic base is pretty small, and relies on hi-tech and military exports to maintain its GDP.  Israel recently overtook the UK as the world's largest exporter of arms and military-related hardware, which as you can imagine, is very important.  The military/tech crossover gives this military-industrial complex incredible clout.  And of course, it is the nature of armies everywhere that the top brass are usually authoritarian and conservative in outlook.  Its a good matchup for Kadima and Likud policies.

As for the International Community Watch, its harder to say.  Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan want to see Hamas, as a tool of Iran, smashed into tiny pieces.  I suspect even Syria, who hosts the leader of Hamas, would not cry overly at the loss of their political clout.  All states are threatened from within by Sunni extremists inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood, which Hamas most certainly are.

The USA has a number of reasons.  The Holocaust is a level of moral debt which plays a role in wider society, at least in galvinising a level of support which is absent, say, in cases of conflict elsewhere, especially sub-Saharan Africa.  However, at the govermental level, Israel is a useful cat's paw in the Middle East.  They can do things the US cannot, for various reasons, and give a flimsy level of deniability to such actions (like levelling Saddam's nuclear reactor in the 80s, making the Iran-Iraq war much more of a stalemate).  Mossad is infamous for its knowledge about various Middle Eastern extremists, and I suspect that the relatively large arms trade plays a role in keeping Israel sweet too.

The UK, of course, does whatever the US tells them, so that explains us.  I believe China has significant arms links with Israel, possibly wanting to obtain and reverse engineer weapons that may make their way into American arsenals.  Israel has a large Russian speaking community and we all know how protective the Russian state is of its own people, even when they don't have a Russian passport.  On the other hand, Russia has had long links with Syria and Iran too, so that reationship is somewhat ambivalent.  But in June, Russia was seriously considering massive arms purchases from Israel as well.  France has long cooperated with Israel in its own War on Terror against socialist and Islamic militants operating from the Middle East and North Africa.  President Sarkozy is in fact partially Jewish, I believe, though so far he has been one of the most outspoken on the need for a stop to the violence and create a lasting peace, to his credit.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2009, 03:54:20 pm »
I agree with Cain... During the first Intifada the Palestinians were smart and made sure there were plenty of pictures of poor kids throwing rocks at big bad Israeli troops with guns and armor. The PR spin was a beautiful piece of using the media and public opinion rather than weapons. From what I've read of that time period, their leadership was explicitly planning on using Israel's actions against them through the world media and it worked.

The problem for the Palestinians now, is that Israel is in control of the spin. Hamas keeps lobbing useless rockets into mostly uninhabited areas and Israel can play that to world public opinion. I mean if someone just keeps doing the same useless thing, over and over, one thinks they may be crazy... and in my opinion, that exactly how Hamas is allowing themselves to be perceived. If you're fighting kids with rocks, you're the bad guy and everyone wants involved... if you're killing the crazy ass motherfuckers that keep shooting rockets at your population, well that a bit more murky.

They've also, thus far held back from a full ground assault, so some people seem to rationalize that they're not using too much force... (1000 dead vs 10 dead... uhhh, yeah not too much force there).
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

The Iron Lung

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2009, 05:39:20 pm »
Long story short:
Palestine is in the right
Israel is in the wrong.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2009, 05:41:17 pm »
Long story short:
Palestine is in the FUBAR.
Israel is in the SNAFU.


Fixed that for ya.

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Messier Undertree

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2009, 05:42:17 pm »
I hate jews

Doesn't surprise me, fucktard.

LMNO

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2009, 05:44:46 pm »
Sometimes, it's just too easy.

The Iron Lung

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2009, 05:49:12 pm »
Sometimes, it's just too easy.

I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

wade

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2009, 05:50:36 pm »
I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF STUPID PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET.   I also think it kinda sucks.
REALLY real discordians

i wouldnt hurt a fly
 :thumb: :kojak:

Messier Undertree

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2009, 05:51:29 pm »
I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

So what would you have done about it? Dissolve the state of Israel and force the jews off the land against their will?

Fucking nazi.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2009, 05:51:43 pm »
Sometimes, it's just too easy.

I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.


Does your Iron Lung keep you from examining data less than 60 years old or so?
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

fomenter

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2009, 05:55:31 pm »


I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

the Puritan settlers created america illegally,  go home immoral britspag
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


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The Iron Lung

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2009, 05:56:24 pm »
I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

So what would you have done about it? Dissolve the state of Israel and force the jews off the land against their will?

Fucking nazi.

Israel is an occupying force in the middle east, the real reason they were given the land was the biblical significance of it. There is no historical evidence to claim that the jews were the original inhabitants of that land.

So what has been done is forcing the Palestinians off land which has been in their families for many generations, to create a nation which today has only existed for not even a century.


I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

the Puritan settlers created america illegally,  go home immoral britspag

Agreed. The United States of America, Australia and Israel are three examples of countries which should not actually exist.

Cain

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2009, 05:56:46 pm »


I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

the Puritan settlers created america illegally,  go home immoral britspag

He's in Australia, but same difference.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2009, 06:00:22 pm »
I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

So what would you have done about it? Dissolve the state of Israel and force the jews off the land against their will?

Fucking nazi.

Israel is an occupying force in the middle east, the real reason they were given the land was the biblical significance of it. There is no historical evidence to claim that the jews were the original inhabitants of that land.

So what has been done is forcing the Palestinians off land which has been in their families for many generations, to create a nation which today has only existed for not even a century.


I don't hate Jews. I just believe that the nation of israel was created illegally. Having people leave their own land against their will to create a new nation is immoral.

the Puritan settlers created america illegally,  go home immoral britspag

Agreed. The United States of America, Australia and Israel are three examples of countries which should not actually exist.


Right, but thats done... Israel is not an Occupying Force... its a fuckin Country. Maybe one that shouldn't have been created, I won't argue... but that's horse has left the line, finished the race, grew old, got put out for stud and is currently being eaten by Joey the first grader for a late afternoon Elmer's cream snack.

NOW, the issue is Israel exists and Palestine exists... and they are gonna have to learn to play nice together. Shooting rockets at your neighbor is not nice. Half-starving your neighbor and cutting them off from the rest of the world is also not nice.

Care to join us in the 21st century?

- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Messier Undertree

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Re: Israeli ground forces to enter Gaza
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2009, 06:01:17 pm »
Israel is an occupying force in the middle east, the real reason they were given the land was the biblical significance of it. There is no historical evidence to claim that the jews were the original inhabitants of that land.

So what has been done is forcing the Palestinians off land which has been in their families for many generations, to create a nation which today has only existed for not even a century.

I didn't ask for a history lesson, retard. I'm asking what you think the solution should be.

Mass relocation of the jews, maybe? Or will you skip that and go straight to genocide?