Author Topic: Your body  (Read 71234 times)

LMNO

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Re: Your body
« Reply #330 on: February 13, 2009, 06:49:03 pm »
Nigel, if I may turn debate into discussion...

While the social roles of what it "means" to be a man or a woman are flexible, there is still a practical and pragmatic "meaning" to be either male or female.

Specifically, the genitals, and the different hormonal surges associated.

I do feel that if, as Kai suggests, "mind" is an emergent process of "brain", and "brain" is affected by the chemicals the body produces, and if differently gendered bodies tend to produce different chemicals, then different genders tend to produce different kinds of minds.

Arbitrary social roles aside, would you say that biology can indeed affect the mind?

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Re: Your body
« Reply #331 on: February 13, 2009, 06:52:14 pm »
Her writing style is so fucking dull that I mostly stopped reading it sometime yesterday afternoon.

I sort of skim it.

No wonder the ignorant ass can't sell her screenplays; she writes like a goddamn piece of plywood, and wouldn't know compelling prose if it snuck up behind her and lubed her in the anal cleft.

Well, I don't think that's really fair... DK might write quite well in a particular niche, interpersonal communication over philosophical hogwash isn't really a fair sampling to judge screenwriting from.

On the other hand, I haven't really seen anything in DK's posts which support the claim of professional writer.....

She can't read. How can someone who has very poor reading comprehension write well? I am skeptical.

Her claim to be a "professional writer", after being clarified by saying that she really hasn't sold any of her work, is completely nullified. I am a professional artist, and I've served on committees with my guild DEFINING what the hell that means in our industry. "I make stuff but I don't really sell any" is a fucking dilettante. Not a professional. Good luck "breaking in".

I have a few friends who are professional writers. How do I know they're professionals? They pay the motherfucking bills with the proceeds from selling their writing. The end.

I still can't believe an aspiring TV screenwriter thinks she's some sort of genius philosophy maven. Well, I guess "genius" can be a relative perception, illustrated by her statement that "some TV is genius".

I suppose, to a lowest common denominator audience, yes, it is. Which also explains why she's so stunningly impressed by Wittgenstein and thinks that anything outside of "philosophy" is "anti-intellectual". 
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Cain

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Re: Your body
« Reply #332 on: February 13, 2009, 06:54:29 pm »
I am a professional hitman.

I haven't killed anyone yet.  :sad:

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Your body
« Reply #333 on: February 13, 2009, 06:55:23 pm »
Nigel, if I may turn debate into discussion...

While the social roles of what it "means" to be a man or a woman are flexible, there is still a practical and pragmatic "meaning" to be either male or female.

Specifically, the genitals, and the different hormonal surges associated.

I do feel that if, as Kai suggests, "mind" is an emergent process of "brain", and "brain" is affected by the chemicals the body produces, and if differently gendered bodies tend to produce different chemicals, then different genders tend to produce different kinds of minds.

Arbitrary social roles aside, would you say that biology can indeed affect the mind?

There is absolute biological meaning to being male or female, or even both. And your biology absolutely affects how you think and react, and who you are.

Shift your interpretation of my argument to the opposite side of what you think I'm arguing, and it might make more sense.

I think I was far too ambiguous in my treatment of the subject. I wanted it to be ambiguous, but not so much that the point was obscured.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Your body
« Reply #334 on: February 13, 2009, 06:59:52 pm »
I am a professional hitman.

I haven't killed anyone yet.  :sad:

 :lulz:
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


zen_magick

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Re: Your body
« Reply #335 on: February 13, 2009, 07:01:21 pm »
Hands Cain a short list with one set of initials on - DK
Blow my Mind or Blow Me!

AFK

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Re: Your body
« Reply #336 on: February 13, 2009, 07:03:30 pm »
Poor Don King. 
He's been so misunderstood. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Thurnez Isa

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Re: Your body
« Reply #337 on: February 13, 2009, 07:11:09 pm »

Well, I don't think that's really fair... DK might write quite well in a particular niche, interpersonal communication over philosophical hogwash isn't really a fair sampling to judge screenwriting from.


No, but unfortunately that describes virtually all the first year philosophy students I've come to know...
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

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Re: Your body
« Reply #338 on: February 13, 2009, 07:14:42 pm »
Hands Cain a short list with one set of initials on - DK


WAIT!!!  I said to shoot it first!!!! 





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Re: Your body
« Reply #339 on: February 13, 2009, 07:37:11 pm »
Nigel, if I may turn debate into discussion...

While the social roles of what it "means" to be a man or a woman are flexible, there is still a practical and pragmatic "meaning" to be either male or female.

Specifically, the genitals, and the different hormonal surges associated.

I do feel that if, as Kai suggests, "mind" is an emergent process of "brain", and "brain" is affected by the chemicals the body produces, and if differently gendered bodies tend to produce different chemicals, then different genders tend to produce different kinds of minds.

Arbitrary social roles aside, would you say that biology can indeed affect the mind?


What gender constructs of that nature do is tell us that we have to change our bodies to match our imaginary gender construct, if the imaginary socially-imposed, inherently sexist gender construct doesn't match the gender role expected of our body's sex. Fuck them. In the face. To death.

Nigel wrote the above and I completely agree. Let's reverse it as I think LMNO suggested and look at it from What the nature of the gender construct tells us to do. Is this a false statement or is there some merit to it. Is it just a perception based on the things Nigel has posited in the OP?
In more primitive time the stronger (male) was the hunter and protector while the weaker (woman) stayed home. In todays society this no longer applies. I wonder in how many cases the perceptions came from a need of survival.

Aufenthatt

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Re: Your body
« Reply #340 on: February 13, 2009, 07:40:58 pm »
Ugh, the cunt still didn't answer my post.  :argh!:

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Your body
« Reply #341 on: February 13, 2009, 07:45:12 pm »
Ugh, the cunt still didn't answer my post.  :argh!:

She ignores everything inconvenient to her ongoing hysterics as "irrelevant" or "lacking a point".  :lulz:

Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Kai

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Re: Your body
« Reply #342 on: February 13, 2009, 07:47:53 pm »
Nigel, if I may turn debate into discussion...

While the social roles of what it "means" to be a man or a woman are flexible, there is still a practical and pragmatic "meaning" to be either male or female.

Specifically, the genitals, and the different hormonal surges associated.

I do feel that if, as Kai suggests, "mind" is an emergent process of "brain", and "brain" is affected by the chemicals the body produces, and if differently gendered bodies tend to produce different chemicals, then different genders tend to produce different kinds of minds.

Arbitrary social roles aside, would you say that biology can indeed affect the mind?

Actually, human bodies tend to have levels of all the sex hormones. The differences are the levels, and the sensitivity to, but these aren't on some fixed male/female binary either.

I'm much more of the mind (heh) that things like gender are created by social expectations and "nurture".

Both affect to some extent, but when you get right down to it, biology is an origin, thats all. I do not think there is anyone here that will argue the mind (or the brain for that matter) is an inmalleable structure. Since the mind is malleable, why would gender be some static thing? Nothing else about the mind is static, hell, even the singularity of consciousness is not fixed (those who know me better know what I'm talking about). Rather, its a bit more complex like that, to the point where rigid expectations of things like gender are just plain stupid. Yes, theres an effect on biology, but if biology of sex  is (pretty much) all the same then it doesn't explain the variation we see; not that I believe sex doesn't vary as well.

Most people here know I have a weird gender identity/nonidentity (among other aspects heh). Is it social or is it biologial? Obviously the mental need for this rejection of binary male/female is real in some respect, that is, in my mind its a very real thing. Where does it come from then? My opinion is that where it comes from is only important if you want to CHANGE it. Well, it doesn't need changing. Its good the way it is, its FINE for me to reject male/female binaries, perhaps even EXCELLENT, if your goal is to render male and female as less important distinctions. I think gender is just another way that power dictates how people act so other people can act as THEY please. Kinda like race. Or Religion. or any other social label.

tl; dr: Biology affects the mind but we should not allow it to dictate our purpose or differences. People should live and act as they feel like, and not let mandates tell them how.
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Re: Your body
« Reply #343 on: February 13, 2009, 07:50:28 pm »
Nigel, if I may turn debate into discussion...

While the social roles of what it "means" to be a man or a woman are flexible, there is still a practical and pragmatic "meaning" to be either male or female.

Specifically, the genitals, and the different hormonal surges associated.

I do feel that if, as Kai suggests, "mind" is an emergent process of "brain", and "brain" is affected by the chemicals the body produces, and if differently gendered bodies tend to produce different chemicals, then different genders tend to produce different kinds of minds.

Arbitrary social roles aside, would you say that biology can indeed affect the mind?


What gender constructs of that nature do is tell us that we have to change our bodies to match our imaginary gender construct, if the imaginary socially-imposed, inherently sexist gender construct doesn't match the gender role expected of our body's sex. Fuck them. In the face. To death.

Nigel wrote the above and I completely agree. Let's reverse it as I think LMNO suggested and look at it from What the nature of the gender construct tells us to do. Is this a false statement or is there some merit to it. Is it just a perception based on the things Nigel has posited in the OP?
In more primitive time the stronger (male) was the hunter and protector while the weaker (woman) stayed home. In todays society this no longer applies. I wonder in how many cases the perceptions came from a need of survival.

Well, I think that there were likely many causes involved with the definition of gender roles. Some tribal societies exist where survival is still a major issue... and the women are much more closely considered equals, rather than 'weaker' (No I'm not making noble savage argument). I think the earliest examples of gender identification can be seen in some other species. The male is loud, shiny and seems built to get attention, the female is much less loud, shiny and doesn't get attention... cause she has Teh Babies. From an evolutionary standpoint, loud, brave (foolhardy?) males were, at one time, probably more likely to pass on genetics (or for their passed on genetics to survive). As times changed, police replaced the MANLY need to keep the rapists and murderers off, society took care of the Lions and Tigers and Bears... so the Man protected his DNA stock with Resources and MONIES. In these Strange Times, even that is no longer a necessity. It seems that some men can't adjust to the idea that we don't NEED to protect the women anymore, while others seem to embrace the concept completely.

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Kai

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Re: Your body
« Reply #344 on: February 13, 2009, 07:57:39 pm »
A person is not their origin. ~A close friend of mine

Example: Is your purpose in life to carry on your parents genes to your offspring? If you look at the physical biological reason of your birth, that is the meaning and purpose you come up with.

How many people REALLY BELIEVE that is their meaning and purpose in life?

In the same way, being via chance born with two X chromosomes does not dictate your meaning and purpose in life be related to the biological OR social definition of "woman".
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

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