The molecular biology of paradise.

[Jasper]

Technology will save us all, they say. 

It had damn well better.  Farming didn't work, religion didn't work, tyranny didn't work, and industry didn't work.

Interestingly enough, all of those are examples of technology.  If anything is going to save us, it'll pretty much have to be technology, given a broad enough definition of technology.

Really it's more like "Novel technology will save us."

No, wait, it's more like "Novel technology will replace our current problems with all new problems.  Yay!"

I can't wait for nanotech.  I'm sure it will be an unmitigated disaster that nearly destroys society (isn't everything these days?), but at least it will be a shitstorm of a color we've never seen before.

I like surprises.

I like to operate under the definition of technology as the practical application of science.

That said, we're pretty much in the same boat.  Problems don't go away, they change.

[Thurnez Isa]

I can't wait for nanotech.  I'm sure it will be an unmitigated disaster that nearly destroys society (isn't everything these days?),

you might not be saying that if you lived in the third world where nano-membranes have been already been produced that have the possibility of detoxifying and purifying otherwise undrinkable water

just saying

[Template]

Technology will save us all, they say. 

It had damn well better.  Farming didn't work, religion didn't work, tyranny didn't work, and industry didn't work.

Interestingly enough, all of those are examples of technology.  If anything is going to save us, it'll pretty much have to be technology, given a broad enough definition of technology.

Religion and tyranny are forms of technology?

They're things you do--"techniques".  Where there are techniques, they fit together into a technology.  Now, we could argue whether religion is a worn-out machine that used to be able to ring up God, or whether it's just supposed to put a policeman in everyone's head, but it's a technology nonetheless.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Technology will save us all, they say. 

It had damn well better.  Farming didn't work, religion didn't work, tyranny didn't work, and industry didn't work.

Interestingly enough, all of those are examples of technology.  If anything is going to save us, it'll pretty much have to be technology, given a broad enough definition of technology.

Religion and tyranny are forms of technology?

They're things you do--"techniques".  Where there are techniques, they fit together into a technology.  Now, we could argue whether religion is a worn-out machine that used to be able to ring up God, or whether it's just supposed to put a policeman in everyone's head, but it's a technology nonetheless.

This is one of the best things that's ever been written, by anyone, ever!

[Dead Kennedy]

Religion and tyranny are forms of technology?

Oh yeah, definitely.  It's primitive social control technology.

Say you perceive a problem:  The people are inefficiently organized.  With great organization they could be far more productive.  So you need some sort of means to organize them.

You need technology for social control.  Technology is just ideas put into practice.  You might imagine there is a God (or if you want to be Old Skool, you might imagine you ARE a God), but that's just an idea.

You build a temple, that's technology.  That's an idea applied to reality to create an effect: worship.  Tyranny is just what my computer programmer friends call the "brute force approach" to social control.  A very simple technology.

[Dead Kennedy]

you might not be saying that if you lived in the third world where nano-membranes have been already been produced that have the possibility of detoxifying and purifying otherwise undrinkable water

No, I mean like NANOTECH.  The crazy wild stuff that Eric Drexler talks about in Engines of Creation.  Goo you pour in the ocean and it makes a battleship.  Rogue nanobots dissolving entire cities.  Humans spontaneously transforming into robots because of experimental medical nanites.

See, it's the little promising developments like water filters that eggs it on. The first factories were lauded because they created the possibility of material prosperity for the masses through the commodification of goods.

Now the north pole is melting and the poor polar bears are drowning.

Television was going to educate the masses.  Hah hah.

[Thurnez Isa]

wow
you've completely convinced me never to ever take a philosophy course ever

[The Good Reverend Roger]

No, I mean like NANOTECH.  The crazy wild stuff that Eric Drexler talks about in Engines of Creation.  Goo you pour in the ocean and it makes a battleship.  Rogue nanobots dissolving entire cities.  Humans spontaneously transforming into robots because of experimental medical nanites.

I'd rather just make dissemblers and dump them all over the place.

The idea of hordes of fucked up primates turning into gray goo with the consistency of baby shit keeps me warm on cold desert nights.

[Cain]

Prince Charles has often been seen warning about the potential dangers of nanotech...to his plants.

The Royal Family's ability for self-mockery keeps me warm on cold nights.

[Vene]

wow
you've completely convinced me never to ever take a philosophy course ever

Needs more dualism.

[Jasper]

Religion and tyranny are forms of technology?

Oh yeah, definitely.  It's primitive social control technology.

Say you perceive a problem:  The people are inefficiently organized.  With great organization they could be far more productive.  So you need some sort of means to organize them.

You need technology for social control.  Technology is just ideas put into practice.  You might imagine there is a God (or if you want to be Old Skool, you might imagine you ARE a God), but that's just an idea.

You build a temple, that's technology.  That's an idea applied to reality to create an effect: worship.  Tyranny is just what my computer programmer friends call the "brute force approach" to social control.  A very simple technology.

Just because it's a technique doesn't make it a technology.  If I crapped into my hand and threw it, I could call that technology but should I?  Is that worth putting into the same category as electrical engineering and cloning?  Go ahead and argue that wearing a big hat and ordering people around is technology. 

Technology is not "just ideas put into practice".  It is definitively the applied sciences.  Methodology is involved somewhere along the line.  I just checked the dictionary, and the closest it gets to agreeing with you is the final definition (read, the loose "casual" definition) allows that it's a system by which society provides its members with those things needed or desired.

As for your brute force analogy.  Brute force is a computer term for "try every damn sequence possible until you get the right one."  You're not even close.

Religion is not technology.

[Dead Kennedy]

Just because it's a technique doesn't make it a technology.

Any technique is a technology.   A technique is the systematic procedure by which a task is accomplished, technology is the branch of knowledge that deals with the creation and use of technical means and their interrelation with life, society, and the environment.  So techniques are examples of technology.

You seem to be using the limited conception of technology as only tools, but technology is both tools AND techniques.

If I crapped into my hand and threw it, I could call that technology but should I?

Sure, though it's not human technology.  Apes invented that technique.  It is a technology of social exclusion.

Problem:  I don't like that monkey.
Solution: Fling poo at it.
Technique: Crap in my hand, hurl feces.

Is that worth putting into the same category as electrical engineering and cloning?  Go ahead and argue that wearing a big hat and ordering people around is technology.

I'll just quote wikipedia at you, and you can argue with wikipedia:
"Technology is a broad concept that deals with an animal species' usage and knowledge of tools and crafts, and how it affects an animal species' ability to control and adapt to its environment. Technology is a term with origins in the Greek "technologia", "τεχνολογία" — "techne", "τέχνη" ("craft") and "logia", "λογία" ("saying").[1] However, a strict definition is elusive; "technology" can refer to material objects of use to humanity, such as machines, hardware or utensils, but can also encompass broader themes, including systems, methods of organization, and techniques. The term can either be applied generally or to specific areas: examples include "construction technology", "medical technology", or "state-of-the-art technology". (emphasis added)"

Tyranny, for example, is a method of organizing people.

Once, when I was applying for a job, I had to do this exercise where I was put in a room with about 60 other applicants.  We we're each given a topic to discuss, and we had to get as many people to pay attention to us as possible.  That was the sole goal.  I was given "The dangers of suntanning." as my topic.

Once the game started, everyone began milling about.  The less outgoing people were easily hooked by the more outgoing people, but everyone was using honey to bait their traps.  Being nice and getting people to pay attention by smiling and using soft sell techniques.  I ignored all of them.

Instead, I walked to the back of the room and grabbed a table that had been placed there.  I dragged the table into the middle of the room.  Many people stopped what they were doing, watching me. I climbed up on the table. I took a deep breath.   Then I screamed:  "ALL RIGHT LISTEN UP YOU MAGGOTS!" Everyone in the room stopped.  Everyone was looking at me. i started bellowing at them about the dangers of suntanning.   Out of the sixty people in the room, I think two tried to keep selling their topic, but I had EVERYONE'S attention.

What happened there is that first, thanks to my exposure to ideas like Discordianism, I was able to see the box that everyone else was trapped in.  The rules said nothing about being nice, there was only one goal: get people's attention by any means necessary. Not a single person in that room even considered relying on the techniques of authoritarianism.

Authority is a technology with many techniques.   Sometimes the technique is stand on a platform so you are taller than everyone else, make them look up, and bellow at them.

Sometimes the technique is wearing a big hat.

Technology is not "just ideas put into practice".

You're free to use as limited a definition as you like.  I prefer to use a broader definition.

It is definitively the applied sciences.

I agree.  Religion and tyranny are applied social science and applied psychology.

Methodology is involved somewhere along the line.  I just checked the dictionary, and the closest it gets to agreeing with you is the final definition (read, the loose "casual" definition) allows that it's a system by which society provides its members with those things needed or desired.

Yes, we should always limit our understanding of complex concepts to what's in the dictionary.   That's a very reasonable position to take.  It's not limiting at all.

Religion is not technology.

You should read Anterro Alli's Angel Tech, or Eric Davis' Techgnosis.  You might find their works challenge and expand your concept of what technology is.

If LSD-25 is a technology for mind expansion, then surely the Ayahuasca ceremony of South American native people's is a technology of mind expansion.  Yet it is a product of religion.

Prayer, meditation, dancing trance, pain infliction, there are a whole range of religious practices that are designed to produce altered states of consciousness that expand awareness.   These are all techniques for mind expansion, and they all fall under the rubric of religion.  They are applied social sciences and applied psychology.  They are a form of technology.

[Jasper]

Sociology and Psychology are 'soft' sciences, therefore your use of technology is similarly soft.

However, thinking of technique as the sociological technology equivalent can introduce useful ideas.

Still, my preference is to distinguish technique and tools.