News:

Revenge is a dish best served salty, sterile, wet and warm.

Main Menu

Green lego prison

Started by Rococo Modem Basilisk, February 18, 2009, 02:29:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Rococo Modem Basilisk

The main arguments against the BIP metaphor seem to be:
1) it's dark
2) people move, prisons don't
3) prisoners don't build their prisons
4) prisons can be escaped

This is my (gross hack) attempt at creating a (gross hack) metaphor to (kluge) patch this.

QuoteThe prison is not black iron. The prison you have been building from birth is made of legos.

Sure, when you're young, creating a house out of legos seemed like fun. You were enthusiastic. Perhaps you were brought up with one of the official instruction sheets, where if you followed the directions, you'd get the same lego motorhome as {jesus,muhamed,the good reverend roger}. Perhaps you were brought up without an instruction sheet and just stuck blocks together. Either way, you managed to build up a home around you (it can move, because it's one of these new-fangled super high power MindStorms kits with the biobattery, and you can even make it do simple tasks by itself like you see on the commercials! oh joy). Perhaps in your teenage years, in a fit of rage, you demolished some small bit of it and had to rebuild it in a different shape. Even so, it probably hasn't changed in a while. This is such a popular thing to do that you barely even notice anymore that you're living inside a house of tiny plastic bricks. Nobody really bothers to notice that you're in one either, and most days you can get by just by using the preprogrammed functions that you wrote during that weekend playing with the drag-and-drop programming thing when you were young.

But it's a bit boring in that lego house of yours, isn't it? You've been in the damned thing for how many years now? You've given up hope of getting out -- a little remodeling is fine, but trying to pry the bricks from those old, smooth inner walls is enough to make your fingers bleed. You've got everything you need in here anyway, right?

Well, you know... Just because you can't break through the walls in one go doesn't mean that you can't do some major remodeling over time. It's been a while since you did any of that stuff -- the preprogrammed functions have let you get through school, get through every day at the office... you hardly ever need to do anything that requires real thinking or real movement -- so of course you will have a rough time initially. For a while, it may seem like your own lego house is a prison or a death trap or some kind of macabre chapel perilous. But you made it, and you can take it apart.

First, open up a little moonroof. Let the sun in sometimes, and get a little more fresh air. Maybe try to brush up on those long-ignored mindstorms programming skills and add new automatic functions, or fix old ones, or remove ones you no longer need. You should remember that a lot of these were made when you were very little, and are both quite useless and very badly written. Perhaps maybe you can make it into a convertable, if you have time. And you have so much more time these days, now that you have the sun from the sunroof energizing you and the fresh air and your automatic functions are more useful and more optimized.

Hell, you can still ride around in the thing, right? You have your new and improved, souped up lego house. Leaving it, of course, would look ridiculous -- everyone of your age wears lego houses! You'd be naked without one, and crazy (you might get arrested for indecent exposure). I mean, sure, do it if you like, but it's way more fun just to pimp it out.

Just remember that some day, it will cease to be new and pimped out, and will become boring again. At that time, remember how you did a little fiddling and slowly changed your lego house into something that you're proud to drive around. It's easier now -- you have more practice.


Obviously this needs some work.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

fomenter

good start.. a variation on the  "old fart" erector-set prison with a more recognizable toy/building material as its basis..

i need to move it to a text file to read properly i will get back to you with opinions/suggestions at some point.
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Template

"Maybe you'll never want to leave it in one shape for long afterwards."

Check out my Desert Outpost--I think it might have enough of something to grab onto.

Rococo Modem Basilisk

We could always merge the two... Lego vehicle gangs in a postapocalyptic wasteland!


But that would kind of remove the point. I *was* going for an extension of the erector set thing, plus I was inspired by whoever it was who wrote that thing about legos for intermittens. Plus, I have metaprograms and imprints in there (yay). However, I'm unsure if many people will understand the idea of a race of naked people living in exoskeletons built out of lego mindstorms kits.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

Template

Quote from: Enki-][ on February 18, 2009, 02:43:29 AM
We could always merge the two... Lego vehicle gangs in a postapocalyptic wasteland!


But that would kind of remove the point. I *was* going for an extension of the erector set thing, plus I was inspired by whoever it was who wrote that thing about legos for intermittens. Plus, I have metaprograms and imprints in there (yay). However, I'm unsure if many people will understand the idea of a race of naked people living in exoskeletons built out of lego mindstorms kits.

The mindstorms idea's cool.  Perhaps you could pull inspiration from the phrase "suits of psychic armor" in the Principia Piscordia.  Remember, if it's in your mind, you should have control over it.  These are the rules that bend, like that scene in the Matrix.

I didn't mean you should incorporate my model, I was just inviting you to critique mine.

fomenter

the Lego prison=the physical limitations on perception, you always work with in the prison
walls = the connected  ideas that limit your view of the world
the blocks= the ideas/thoughts your walls are made of
the construction i have built is the only right/valid one = a limitation (list some others?) on your ability to play/build with the toy of perception
tools/construction plans= things used to reshape the walls of perceptions (books mind fucks etc)
religion philosophy political ideology  etc(list some more?)= names given to the blocks

all i got for now may need re-modeling definitely needs expansion..
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I like the Lego Hut metaphor. I will use it from now on.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Phineas T. Poxwattle

this may seem really superficial, but I'm having trouble buying in because it's inherently tied to a brand name - I mean, it's a cool brand, but nevertheless...

fomenter

i had the same reaction back when it was first suggested i think i am getting over it, Lego is pretty generic now kinda like kleenex...
oops    inspiration     how about the logos block prison similar enough to make the connection to the toy but with the added connotation logos brings..
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Rococo Modem Basilisk

Quote from: fomenter on February 18, 2009, 03:35:06 AM
i had the same reaction back when it was first suggested i think i am getting over it, Lego is pretty generic now kinda like kleenex...
oops    inspiration     how about the logos block prison similar enough to make the connection to the toy but with the added connotation logos brings..

I like.

Btw, I was suggesting that most dogmatic religions/ideologies are like the booklets that tell you how to build specific types of lego things. Those booklets are surprisingly hard to follow, and I'd always get something that looked wrong, so I'd always build something from scratch, but other kids managed to build from the booklets just fine and never really needed to build anything that wasn't in them.


I am not "full of hate" as if I were some passive container. I am a generator of hate, and my rage is a renewable resource, like sunshine.

fomenter

i wasn't convinced the model i used is the best it can use some work


the Logos prison=the physical limitations on perception, you always work with in the prison
walls = the connected  ideas that limit your view of the world
the blocks= the ideas/thoughts your walls are made of
the construction i have built is the only right/valid one = a limitation (list some others?) on your ability to play/build with the toy of perception
tools/construction plans= things used to reshape the walls of perceptions (books mind fucks etc)
religion philosophy political ideology  etc(list some more?)= names given to the walls the makeup of the walls are built from child hood (sometimes chosen for you)

all i got for now may need re-modeling definitely needs expansion..

small change to incorporate your ideas a bit still needs more work but i like so far..
"So she says to me, do you wanna be a BAD boy? And I say YEAH baby YEAH! Surf's up space ponies! I'm makin' gravy... Without the lumps. HAAA-ha-ha-ha!"


hmroogp

Telarus

Quote from: Phineas Poxwattle on February 18, 2009, 03:28:03 AM
this may seem really superficial, but I'm having trouble buying in because it's inherently tied to a brand name - I mean, it's a cool brand, but nevertheless...

Phineas,

If I were presenting the model within the narrative that it should be presented in, the brand name issue is just another rug to pull out from under the reader when you unveil the stack of megaBlocks in that shadowy corner of the prison. Wow, it's the set with all of the light up dragons and knights.. SWEEEEEEET.

Namaste
Telarus, KSC,
.__.  Keeper of the Contradictory Cephalopod, Zenarchist Swordsman,
(0o)  Tender to the Edible Zen Garden, Ratcheting Metallic Sex Doll of The End Times,
/||\   Episkopos of the Amorphous Dreams Cabal

Join the Doll Underground! Experience the Phantasmagorical Safari!

Dead Kennedy

You asked for a critique, you said this needs work, so I'm treating this like a rough draft.  Also, the plural of LEGO is LEGO.  And it's always capitalized.  The Danish Mafia will totally fucking kill you if you forget.

QuoteThe prison is not black iron. The prison you have been building from birth is made of legos.

This could be expanded on.  I built the prison?  Doesn't the use of "building" imply intentionality?  What was my motivation for building the house?  Who gave me the LEGO?

Also, what is this a metaphor for?  Plato opens the Allegory of the Cave with the line "And now, I said, let me show in a figure how far our nature is enlightened or unenlightened:"  This told us what the metaphor is about, why we care about the cave.  The Allegory of the Cave is an allegory about the human condition, about the difference between the enlightened and unenlightened.

QuoteSure, when you're young, creating a house out of legos seemed like fun. You were enthusiastic. Perhaps you were brought up with one of the official instruction sheets, where if you followed the directions, you'd get the same lego motorhome as {jesus,muhamed,the good reverend roger}. Perhaps you were brought up without an instruction sheet and just stuck blocks together.

Is it a house or a prison?  I notice the whole essay works exactly the same either way.  Mostly because you consistently use house instead of prison.

This could be combined with the introduction to help answer the questions raised.  Also, is this house in my mind, or is it a literal physical house?  I ask because of the use of motorhome and this:
QuoteEither way, you managed to build up a home around you (it can move, because it's one of these new-fangled super high power MindStorms kits with the biobattery, and you can even make it do simple tasks by itself like you see on the commercials! oh joy).

This is confusing.  It can move? I assume you are talking about a metaphorical LEGO house.  In my head.  How does it move?  What does that even mean?  The LEGO house can do simple tasks?  Like what?  I don't see how this aside or the motorhome twist enhances the metaphor.  If the LEGO house is all in my head (which it has to be, since I would have noticed if I'd spent my whole life in a literal LEGO house).

Also... MindStorm?  Maybe you shouldn't assume the audience is familiar with the latest developments in LEGO products.  You say LEGO and I think of the little colored blocks, not specific product lines.  I have no idea what MindStorm is, and I don't want to go find out just so I can understand this essay.

QuotePerhaps in your teenage years, in a fit of rage, you demolished some small bit of it and had to rebuild it in a different shape. Even so, it probably hasn't changed in a while. This is such a popular thing to do that you barely even notice anymore that you're living inside a house of tiny plastic bricks.

'Kay.  Alternately, "Perhaps in a fit of teenage rebellion, you demolished and rebuilt some small bit of it to convince yourself you think for yourself."  Not everyone has teenage rage, but EVERYONE thinks they are smarter than their guardians and educators.

QuoteNobody really bothers to notice that you're in one either, and most days you can get by just by using the preprogrammed functions that you wrote during that weekend playing with the drag-and-drop programming thing when you were young.

You just mixed metaphors.  Lego houses don't have preprogrammed functions and aren't constructed by drag-and-drop programming.

QuoteBut it's a bit boring in that lego house of yours, isn't it? You've been in the damned thing for how many years now? You've given up hope of getting out -- a little remodeling is fine, but trying to pry the bricks from those old, smooth inner walls is enough to make your fingers bleed. You've got everything you need in here anyway, right?

Good.

QuoteWell, you know... Just because you can't break through the walls in one go doesn't mean that you can't do some major remodeling over time.

Do you mean to imply that I can break through the walls eventually?

QuoteIt's been a while since you did any of that stuff -- the preprogrammed functions have let you get through school, get through every day at the office... you hardly ever need to do anything that requires real thinking or real movement -- so of course you will have a rough time initially. For a while, it may seem like your own lego house is a prison or a death trap or some kind of macabre chapel perilous. But you made it, and you can take it apart.

I'd remove the reference to Chapel Perilous as that has a fairly specific meaning, and there is no point in diluting that metaphor.

Also the reference to preprogrammed functions is busting your metaphor again.

QuoteFirst, open up a little moonroof. Let the sun in sometimes, and get a little more fresh air.

The second time you've implied there is something outside the house.  I don't want to let a little sun in, I want to go outside!  Why can't I go outside.  Plato left me the option to leave the cave.  Why can't I leave the house?  Why even mention the outside you bastard?  That's just fucking cruel.

I want to go out and play!  I've been stuck in this damn LEGO house since I was a kid!

QuoteMaybe try to brush up on those long-ignored mindstorms programming skills and add new automatic functions, or fix old ones, or remove ones you no longer need. You should remember that a lot of these were made when you were very little, and are both quite useless and very badly written. Perhaps maybe you can make it into a convertable, if you have time. And you have so much more time these days, now that you have the sun from the sunroof energizing you and the fresh air and your automatic functions are more useful and more optimized.

I'm totally lost. Maybe if I knew what Mindstorms are?

QuoteHell, you can still ride around in the thing, right? You have your new and improved, souped up lego house. Leaving it, of course, would look ridiculous -- everyone of your age wears lego houses! You'd be naked without one, and crazy (you might get arrested for indecent exposure). I mean, sure, do it if you like, but it's way more fun just to pimp it out.

Even more lost.  I still don't understand what riding around in my LEGO house maps to.  I wear my LEGO house? Other people can see my LEGO house?  What's going on?  I'd be naked with out my house?  What the fuck man?

YOU'RE BLOWING MY FUCKING MIND MAN.

I'm driving around naked in my preprogrammed LEGO house that I built when I was a kid?

:?
To steal a person's voice is to censor them.  Change this sig and you are the censor. HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

Dead Kennedy

#13
Quote from: Enki-][ on February 18, 2009, 03:45:51 AM
Btw, I was suggesting that most dogmatic religions/ideologies are like the booklets that tell you how to build specific types of lego things. Those booklets are surprisingly hard to follow, and I'd always get something that looked wrong, so I'd always build something from scratch, but other kids managed to build from the booklets just fine and never really needed to build anything that wasn't in them.

It totally busts the LEGO metaphor, but reading your piece I was imaging LEGO blocks falling on a baby (maybe one year old, old enough to sit up) like Tetris blocks, and the baby having to build something, anything, with the blocks being tossed at it. Maybe they aren't LEGO per se, maybe they are those baby LEGO.  Big simple ideas, easy to put together -- mom, dad, authority, love. 

So what does it do? Naturally it stacks them in a wall.  Since it can only reach so high, it has to build out.  Because it can only reach so far, it must build around.  Since it cannot move, it encircles itself. 

As it grows, more and more blocks are thrown at it, more complex blocks.  "Education." It could walk away, but there's a wall around them.

Eventually the blocks stop coming.  Turns out they come in at an angle.  Once you've built the wall up over your head, blocks just start bouncing off.


But then your MindStorm thing totally blew the image for me.



Also I love that the whole thing is based on a trademarked toy that everyone is familiar with.  It's very Andy Warhol.  I want to see this turned into an animation or photoseries.with LEGO people. 

ETA: Crap.  I forgot one of the things I wanted to say re: blueprints.

Okay, the whole spiel up there?  About the baby forced to build a wall of blocks or be buried under them?  Well it's the parents, educators, media and peers throwing the blocks.  Most people end up with a bias towards certain colors -- Americans will get a heavy mix of Red, White and Blue bricks -- but some people will get REALLY heavily biased block mixes.  Their parents, teachers, peers and authority figures are all chucking the same color block.

Maybe they're all White blocks.  Fundie parents, homeschooling, church, "I only read books about the bible."  Maybe they're all Green blocks and the only way out is to blow yourself up and collect 72 virgins.

My parents mostly through me black, red, and tie-dyed blocks.  Stupid hippies.
To steal a person's voice is to censor them.  Change this sig and you are the censor. HAHAHA DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

Reginald Ret


Quotewhat is this a metaphor for?
The limitations of perception created by the way you interpreted incoming data in the past.


QuoteAlso, is this house in my mind, or is it a literal physical house?  
The house is your mind (or your personality, that depends on your definition).

QuoteAlso... MindStorm?  Maybe you shouldn't assume the audience is familiar with the latest developments in LEGO products.  You say LEGO and I think of the little colored blocks, not specific product lines.  I have no idea what MindStorm is, and I don't want to go find out just so I can understand this essay.
Heh i had the same problem, but i used my imagination to get some idea of what LEGO + robotics would look like. It's a trick to force the reader to engage their mind.

Quote'Kay.  Alternately, "Perhaps in a fit of teenage rebellion, you demolished and rebuilt some small bit of it to convince yourself you think for yourself."  Not everyone has teenage rage, but EVERYONE thinks they are smarter than their guardians and educators.
:mittens: (normally i only use mittens for good posts, not just a single point, but i know how you feel about people responding with mittens so i couldn't stop myself.)

Quote
QuoteWell, you know... Just because you can't break through the walls in one go doesn't mean that you can't do some major remodeling over time.
Do you mean to imply that I can break through the walls eventually?
This is a limitation of all BIP metaphores.

Quote
QuoteIt's been a while since you did any of that stuff -- the preprogrammed functions have let you get through school, get through every day at the office... you hardly ever need to do anything that requires real thinking or real movement -- so of course you will have a rough time initially. For a while, it may seem like your own lego house is a prison or a death trap or some kind of macabre chapel perilous. But you made it, and you can take it apart.
I'd remove the reference to Chapel Perilous as that has a fairly specific meaning, and there is no point in diluting that metaphor.
QuoteChapel Perilous is the state of confusion that occurs when your rational view of the world is broken; broken by drugs, by various aesthetic practices or by so-called mental illness.
This chapel?
That sounds like what happens when a rationalist realizes that he only is rational because he was taught/taught himself that rationalism was the best way. This fits perfectly with the BIP and by extension with this metaphore.


Quote
QuoteFirst, open up a little moonroof. Let the sun in sometimes, and get a little more fresh air.
The second time you've implied there is something outside the house.  I don't want to let a little sun in, I want to go outside!  Why can't I go outside.  Plato left me the option to leave the cave.  Why can't I leave the house?  Why even mention the outside you bastard?  That's just fucking cruel.

I want to go out and play!  I've been stuck in this damn LEGO house since I was a kid!
You can't, without the house as reference and filter the outside world doesn't make sense at all.

Quote
QuoteMaybe try to brush up on those long-ignored mindstorms programming skills and add new automatic functions, or fix old ones, or remove ones you no longer need. You should remember that a lot of these were made when you were very little, and are both quite useless and very badly written. Perhaps maybe you can make it into a convertable, if you have time. And you have so much more time these days, now that you have the sun from the sunroof energizing you and the fresh air and your automatic functions are more useful and more optimized.
I'm totally lost. Maybe if I knew what Mindstorms are?
The habits and mannerisms you formed in your youth are an example of the automatic functions here.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"