Green lego prison

[Dead Kennedy]

what is this a metaphor for?

The limitations of perception created by the way you interpreted incoming data in the past.

Okay.  I don't think this is a good metaphor for that.

Also, is this house in my mind, or is it a literal physical house?  

The house is your mind (or your personality, that depends on your definition).

Wait.  The house is a metaphor for my mind? I totally don't see that. 

Also... MindStorm?  Maybe you shouldn't assume the audience is familiar with the latest developments in LEGO products.  You say LEGO and I think of the little colored blocks, not specific product lines.  I have no idea what MindStorm is, and I don't want to go find out just so I can understand this essay.

Heh i had the same problem, but i used my imagination to get some idea of what LEGO + robotics would look like. It's a trick to force the reader to engage their mind.

It's a trick to force readers to look up a toy on the internet.   

Do you mean to imply that I can break through the walls eventually?

This is a limitation of all BIP metaphores.

Which is a really good reason to find another metaphor.

Structures are good metaphors for things people are inside, and can leave. If you're describing something you can't go inside and can't leave, a metaphor other than a structure metaphor is called for.

I'd remove the reference to Chapel Perilous as that has a fairly specific meaning, and there is no point in diluting that metaphor.

[quoteChapel Perilous is the state of confusion that occurs when your rational view of the world is broken; broken by drugs, by various aesthetic practices or by so-called mental illness.

This chapel?
That sounds like what happens when a rationalist realizes that he only is rational because he was taught/taught himself that rationalism was the best way. This fits perfectly with the BIP and by extension with this metaphore.[/quote]

Chapel Perilous is not a state of confusion -- though confusion is a common reaction.  Chapel Perilous is the state where all meaning is destroyed.  When one escapes the Black Iron Prison (RAW Model), one ends up in Chapel Perilous.   Chapel Perilous is called such because if you don't make it through you can end up a burned-out braincase.

The best explanation ever: When Father Tom molested Timmy, Timmy realized everything his parents,peers and priests believed was a lie.  Hurled out of the Black Iron Prison into a world without meaning, into Chapel Perilous, Timmy finds himself unable to cope with the freedom which is when he realized he was really a dragon.  And back in the Black Iron Prison he goes.

Most people who attempt a jail break get lost in Chapel Perilous and end up back in the Prison.  Others make it through, seek out friends, and create a TAZ (Temporary Autonomous Zone) in which they can experiment with creative order and disorder.  Some choose to live in the TAZ, others note its easier to survive in the BIP and take advantage of their guest pass to slip the walls when there are no inmates around.

I want to go out and play!  I've been stuck in this damn LEGO house since I was a kid!

You can't, without the house as reference and filter the outside world doesn't make sense at all.[/quote]

But then the house is not like a house.  So the metaphor doesn't make much sense.

A window might make more sense, and in fact I've seen a window used as a metaphor to explain these concepts VERY effectively.  I'll see if I can find my essay on the subject.

The habits and mannerisms you formed in your youth are an example of the automatic functions here.

I can't help but notice that RAW's Robot model would seem to work a bit better to get these same ideas across.  Robots, like houses, are constructed.  Robots, unlike house, don't contain people.  Robots are also programmable and reprogrammable.  Finally, if you are a robot you can't escape the robot.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I suppose I only know what LEGO Mindstorms is because I've been a robotics junkie from a young age... That bit could use some work, certainly. It makes a lot more sense once you consider that the lego house has motors and sensors and programmed functions.

Btw, the name is really bad. It's more like a lego exoskeleton, and the implication is that one day it became so popular that *everyone* had to have one. Like I said, it's an attempt to work out the kinks in the BIP metaphor. The automatic functions are more or less like metaprograms for early circuit imprints, and habits that have become nearly automatic.

If someone can think of some equivalent that is more well-known than LEGO Mindstorms, be my guest. Someone suggested K'NEX, but I'm only vaguely aware of that brand and I don't think they have programmable functions unless you build a mechanical computer out of them.

[fomenter]

enki try to ignore DK tempts to crap on your thread, he is being critical of something in almost every post he has made at pd. if you can stomach the stench of troll read his shit stain for the rare legitimate questions and dismiss the rest

bip type metaphors are complex and not likely to show up in a fully developed form.

i am thinking of a fun house,  retracting and shifting walls unlimited movement within, after learning how to turn the lego/logos prison into the lego fun house, is an idea to consider

i am going to reread some bip stuff to get a better pic of how the metaphor should work since it is essentially a rework of the bip where the cells bars etc are replaced with a building block lego description to make them more recognisably something that can be changed manipulated..

[Thurnez Isa]

wrong formenter you should only posts just for something to gawk at
there are no legitimate questions in there... at least not any good ones

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I think that it's a legitimate complaint that someone who had never heard of Mindstorms and hasn't played with legos since the nineteen seventies may be entirely unaware of the idea and at odds with the notion of programmable motorized lego exoskeletons. However, I can't think of anything comparable that works any better, and you kind of have to be living under a rock and/or not on the tubes in order not to be aware of mindstorms, so I think it's probably just fine for now to use it, since it adds so much to the metaphor.

[Thurnez Isa]

to be fair all metaphors are going to have specific audiences... Not sure if your going to find one that will have universal appeal.

[fomenter]

I think that it's a legitimate complaint that someone who had never heard of Mindstorms and hasn't played with legos since the nineteen seventies may be entirely unaware of the idea and at odds with the notion of programmable motorized lego exoskeletons. However, I can't think of anything comparable that works any better, and you kind of have to be living under a rock and/or not on the tubes in order not to be aware of mindstorms, so I think it's probably just fine for now to use it, since it adds so much to the metaphor.

i am not familiar with mind storm and got the reference in spite of it, the question is  mind storm programmable robots  vs sticking with a modified bip for a GSP version

the mind storm is more in line with the vehicle model not necessarily a bad thing and a strong GSP metaphor in its own right

to be fair all metaphors are going to have specific audiences... Not sure if your going to find one that will have universal appeal.

this
also read most resent additions to the BIP thread talking about alternative/companion metaphors

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

to be fair all metaphors are going to have specific audiences... Not sure if your going to find one that will have universal appeal.

MODEL FUCKING AGNOSTICISM!



I agree... that's why I'd like to see the "Golden Sphere of Possibility" cover the golden sphere of possible models and metaphors for people to compare/contrast and choose amongst (or to get inspired, dump our lame ass shit and build their own).

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I liked the mindstorms bit because
1) it attacks the complaint about a prison staying in one place
2) it incorporates the idea of metaprogramming, and the reasons for wanting to re-imprint

In that sense, it combines the BIP/GSP with the Broken Robots model. I like that.

However, if people can't figure out how the broken robots model's territory is addressed in it, that sort of invalidates the point of having it in there, right? I realize that any model will not appeal to everyone, however, a model is kind of useless if it only makes sense to a couple people on a forum and only in the context of other models which it doesn't actually directly add utility to. It's like a map of the map that only makes any sense if you know the original map inside-out, and doesn't even necessarily make sense then because it uses different terms in a language you've never heard of.

(And now I'm making a map of why my map of a map would be useless if it was deemed to refer to a different map than I intended it to, so I'll stop before I hit an infinite regress situation)

[fomenter]

to be fair all metaphors are going to have specific audiences... Not sure if your going to find one that will have universal appeal.

MODEL FUCKING AGNOSTICISM!



I agree... that's why I'd like to see the "Golden Sphere of Possibility" cover the golden sphere of possible models and metaphors for people to compare/contrast and choose amongst (or to get inspired, dump our lame ass shit and build their own).

aren't you the originator of the vehicle model?

[fomenter]

I liked the mindstorms bit because
1) it attacks the complaint about a prison staying in one place
2) it incorporates the idea of metaprogramming, and the reasons for wanting to re-imprint

In that sense, it combines the BIP/GSP with the Broken Robots model. I like that.

However, if people can't figure out how the broken robots model's territory is addressed in it, that sort of invalidates the point of having it in there, right? I realize that any model will not appeal to everyone, however, a model is kind of useless if it only makes sense to a couple people on a forum and only in the context of other models which it doesn't actually directly add utility to. It's like a map of the map that only makes any sense if you know the original map inside-out, and doesn't even necessarily make sense then because it uses different terms in a language you've never heard of.

(And now I'm making a map of why my map of a map would be useless if it was deemed to refer to a different map than I intended it to, so I'll stop before I hit an infinite regress situation)

the attack on the prison is that the bars and cells are a fixed immovable feature of a prison . the building blocks Lego's address that by being movable/possible to tear down and reconstruct for your own needs/amusement.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I like this very much with only two minor quibbles.

1) There's a bit of bouncing between lego prison, lego house, lego vehicle and lego clothing(?) within the space of a couple sentences. I think all of those metaphors apply, but maybe the story would benefit from a comment about how the lego prison can be transformed into a Lego house/vehicle/clothes etc... or even that you have a lego house and a lego car and a lego suit and a lego life

2) I'd shy away from 'chapel perilous' as described in the initial post. The term Chapel Perilous has a lot of existing connotations particularly from Cosmic Trigger series and Antero's Angel Tech (awesome book by the way). It's generally a reference to the place where you lose all certainty. Where everything you know is challenged, questioned and you come out crazy, paranoid, screaming into the arms of the first cult/belief system you can find... or you never realize that you're there and you stand around in the foyer for a couple decades before you die.

I like the piece, but I'd use a different word so its not confusing to people that already have a semantic association with that label.

I think this is a great metaphor!

[fomenter]

I like this very much with only two minor quibbles.

1) There's a bit of bouncing between lego prison, lego house, lego vehicle and lego clothing(?) within the space of a couple sentences. I think all of those metaphors apply, but maybe the story would benefit from a comment about how the lego prison can be transformed into a Lego house/vehicle/clothes etc... or even that you have a lego house and a lego car and a lego suit and a lego life

2) I'd shy away from 'chapel perilous' as described in the initial post. The term Chapel Perilous has a lot of existing connotations particularly from Cosmic Trigger series and Antero's Angel Tech (awesome book by the way). It's generally a reference to the place where you lose all certainty. Where everything you know is challenged, questioned and you come out crazy, paranoid, screaming into the arms of the first cult/belief system you can find... or you never realize that you're there and you stand around in the foyer for a couple decades before you die.

I like the piece, but I'd use a different word so its not confusing to people that already have a semantic association with that label.

I think this is a great metaphor!

i agree we seem to be working two or more metaphors simaltaniously for clarity purposes i would be inclined to separate the vehicle/robot from the Lego prison/fun house 

in the lego prison/lego fun house the chapel perilous could be used in its original context as the chaotic point where you have torn the walls down and before you learn to reshape rebuild on your own (or throw up the first cult/wall belief system you come across )

i would hesitate to throw complexity into the metaphor before the basic layout is determined i would leave trying to fit chapel perilous for later it may not be needed

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

I think functionally it becomes a lego exoskeleton. However, if you just outright say that, fewer people will understand it than saying that it's a moving house that you never leave and that has programmable robot arms.

[fomenter]

i think the Lego fun-house/prison model, like the black iron prison doesn't need an outside (= undifferentiated chaos?) the walls are our filters that makes order out of it, the ability to tear down, mix and match and rebuild walls is the freedom, the escape from prison and the entrance in to the fun house world