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Help - the truthers almost have me!

Started by P3nT4gR4m, February 24, 2009, 02:47:09 PM

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P3nT4gR4m

So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer.  :x

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
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Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Thurnez Isa

documents are taken out of context..
the experts are bullshit working out of their field..
and the people refuting it are scientists...
google the loosechange rebuttal or youtube screw Loose change
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante

LMNO

First off, which version did you see?  He made three different ones, each with a slightly different conclusion.

hooplala

I've never even heard of this.  What's it about?
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

LMNO

9/11 was an inside plot by the US gvt; a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon; WTC collapse was a demolition, not a structural collapse.

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Not LMNO on February 24, 2009, 02:55:09 PM
First off, which version did you see?  He made three different ones, each with a slightly different conclusion.

Haven't got to the conclusion yet. I'm about 3/4 way through the first half (2-part torrent)

I think it's called "final cut" but I could be wrong I'll check again tonite

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

hooplala

My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

LMNO

Three easily debunked points:

1.  The cable spools at the pentagon are fucked up


2. Marvin Bush had nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of security at the World Trade Center, plus he left his position as a board member of the company that did provide security in June 2000, more than 14 months before the terrorist attacks.

3.  Osama doesn't wear a ring?  Bullshit.

Faust

To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Dr Hoopla on February 24, 2009, 03:07:45 PM
My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

I always tell people they used it to further aims to make a totalitarian state and secure the pipelines in Afghanistan.

Shit, my story is ten times as convincing as theirs and I've put no fucking effort whatsoever into inventing mine :lulz:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

AFK

Quote from: Faust on February 24, 2009, 03:15:45 PM
To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

I'd be willing to entertain that part of the conspiracy theories.  It does seem to be a plausible scenario.  Though, there is that bit of audio that was released from a cell phone convo making it sound like some passengers were about to take on the hijackers.  
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

hooplala

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on February 24, 2009, 03:19:25 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on February 24, 2009, 03:07:45 PM
My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

I always tell people they used it to further aims to make a totalitarian state and secure the pipelines in Afghanistan.

Shit, my story is ten times as convincing as theirs and I've put no fucking effort whatsoever into inventing mine :lulz:


That makes some sense.  There's a part in Illuminatus that says that sort of thing would happen.  DAMN YOU RAW!!
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Dr Hoopla on February 24, 2009, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on February 24, 2009, 03:19:25 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on February 24, 2009, 03:07:45 PM
My problem is that all the truther's conclusions seem to come down to an insurance money scam, don't they?  Maybe I'm not cynical enough but I don't believe anyone is grotesque enough to kill thousands of innocent people just for money.

Are they arguing something new now?

I always tell people they used it to further aims to make a totalitarian state and secure the pipelines in Afghanistan.

Shit, my story is ten times as convincing as theirs and I've put no fucking effort whatsoever into inventing mine :lulz:


That makes some sense.  There's a part in Illuminatus that says that sort of thing would happen.  DAMN YOU RAW!!

Whenever I'm cooking up something like this I tend to take what happened as a direct "effect" and then shift that round to the "cause" position in the equation. Means you have the QED factor built in.

This is why the insurance scam thing surprises me - it looks like they went to a lot of effort to produce this and if the best conclusion they could come up with was a fkin remake of the titanic conspiracy then it's a bit of a shame IMO

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Lies

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on February 24, 2009, 02:47:09 PM
So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer.  :x
You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order... is you!

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Lysergic on February 24, 2009, 03:37:16 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on February 24, 2009, 02:47:09 PM
So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer.  :x
You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down :lulz:

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark